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Outside blocks

K.G.

With nitrates squeezing people may ditch drystock or rent outside land to comply I said i d put up a discussion on the pros and cons of different strategies with outside blocks .suggested options.

2 cut Silage with grazing with heifers spring autumn

3/4cut silage no grazing

Heifer rearing

Silage and zero grazing

Zero grazing

Maize

Wholecrop cereal s

Beet

Red clover

Typically new rented blocks need reseeding and maybe you could use out wintering with crops and bales

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K.G.

Just to give a bit of framework to the debate we ll use as an example a farmer milking 100 cows and a 20block near him has come available .his heifers and silage is already sorted and his cows throw 5000 litres a year.he s debating buying a zero grazer and milking an extra 20 cows.

The extra 20 cows will generate 100k litres which we ll say 36 k euro.

My stab at it is roughly 180 loads off the 20 acres over the year which would be @ 80 euro a load 13.5k

Rent 7.5 k

Fert 3 k

Reseeding/lime 1.5 k 1 year

Slurry spreading we ll say 100 loads over the year at 75 hr is 3.5 k roughly so that's costs I make it of 29 k so you have a gm of 7 k on those 20 cows.the next question what would be the capital costs of those 20 cows.feel free to disect the figure's

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357582#Comment_121357582

I’ve no need to cut back cow numbers. I have the land. I’m making money and I have a good young guy milking and doing odd days here and there when I need him. I’m better set up now than I’ve ever been with less cows

im finished till the afternoon since 10 am and dad wasn’t out with me at all this morning.

my idea is to get back to a more grass based system. I know it will bring extra work load but i think I’ll be okay with that.

ive talked to numerous lads now. 2 have cows in full time and they have no issue with bringing in wet grass

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357709#Comment_121357709

It’s the complication and extea balancing and work z grazing brings puts me off …then throw in soil compaction and heavy rake off of nutrients …..I’ve 16 acres of red clover I’d planned to z graze ….ground too wet and even if I waited for ground to dry out I’d still do damage ….sheep going to clean it now

most dairy lads z graze in spring and back end bringing in wet low dm grass …hard on cows feet and unless balancing that with fibre it’s strip condition off cows ….I’ve found good quality bales at back end leaves cows far more content

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357558#Comment_121357558

Would agree re heavy covers 2000 plus, but fresh 20 day round 1400 ha/dm grass zero-grazed in cows prefrom really well on even when wet, you obviously need a 2-4kgdm of a fibre source going in to counter-act stomach issues

What I was most impressed with was when I started going with fairly pokey slurry spread with the moschia their was no rejection of the zero-grazed grass on a 20 day round, when you do the sums say your bring in 2 ton of d.m a load contractor 85 euro a load / 60 euro slurry and fert and 40 euro for the time spent putting it in, your taking 85-95 euro per ton of d.m, a silage/whole-crop/maize mix will be costing you over 200 per ton of dm

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355094#Comment_121355094

Why not ….straight making very legitimate point …cutting back few cows and simplifying things isn’t defeat ….saw it here when my dad had to step back his workload and the shiny ambitions I had changed for the better when I stopped trying to follow all the poster boys in the journal etc …far more to life than cows

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354903#Comment_121354903

Whatever you do don’t buy a z grazer ….aim for multi cut silage and maize /wholecrop instead ….wet soft grass ain’t good feeding and leads to a lot of compaction

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121213593#Comment_121213593

Z grazing wet grass has frig all feeding ….good quality silage trumps it

mahoney_j

Plough and power harrow. 120/acre

sowing 90/acre

seed/spray/plastic(new bio degradable) 490/acre

harvesting 170/acre

feetliser /slurry. 7 k slurry over 2 splits …..2 bags 0 7 30 2 bags urea

contractor cost 15 euro per acre for chemical

70 euro per hour for shoe/trail slurry (cost per acre worked out at 75

chemicsl fertiliser depends on when you bought it

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355665#Comment_121355665

Best bet is prob do the numbers on it first. Be sure to put in a figure for your own time as well as machinery purchase / running costs.

Have a neighbour who used to zerograze a lot, went thru a couple of machines at it and is a machinery man but they have job gone to nearly all bales bar a bit of zerograzing at the shoulders. The zerograzing just took too much time out of the day whereas at least with the silage it was made and could be fed out whenever. Obv a bit of work in drawing it back etc but like that it wasn't every day.

Trial a bit with a contractor, maybe even time the loads etc and see how it goes. If it works out only for the shoulders of the year may as well get contractor at it if they can as spring will be busy anyway and it will reduce housed workload at year end. That 2 hours could be with the family, social side, etc as opposed to other jobs too.

Same money one would cost could be put into the yard as well if need be? That tends to be the case here anyway always something more pressing to be sorted.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356441#Comment_121356441

We can do that.wagon will hold almost 2 zeros of grass but you have to be aware of grass fresh weight.we tend to mow headlands into a triple swath and front mower the middle as you loose a bit on the corners with the front mower.it wouldn't work as well as a zero grazer in poor conditions but we tend to zero when conditions are suited and not when they are poor. We might almost fully feed the cows with zero for a few days rather than thinking in terms little bit every day

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356767#Comment_121356767

I'll take em for free if your looking to give em away😄 a few more empty than is like

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356618#Comment_121356618

I wouldn’t say my mind is 100% made up

I’m questioning it strongly but it has a lot of pros to it for me

were making good money with the numbers we’re at but I want to get back to a more grass based system without cutting cow numbers.

have talked to 6 different lads the last few weeks that are doing it and they’re all happy with it bad the taking up extra time part of it

I also have a bunch of incalf heifers that you couldn’t give away and they’ve great figures - in my opinion any way

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354903#Comment_121354903

ah as i can see you more or less have your mind made up on going zero grazing.... would cutting cow numbers be such a bad thing?? think you said ye were milking 170?? how far back would you have to go for nitrates?? how big is your single payment?? could u do without it....?

i say this as a heap of lads around me are zero grazing.... and all they are doing is going around in circles... tho 1 guy did buy a new tractor last yr... he was sick of having to take off zero grazer after bringing in grass to put on slurry tank to draw out slurry so he bought a tractor for slurry tank now he just has to hop from one tractor to the next and no more taking off or putting tank or grazer... so i suppose thats progress...

hes doing the zero grazing off rented ground which he has with 10yrs... super job done with land... i mean super.. top class farm by him now... unfortunately the owner has got a notion and wants to go farming (big surprise to all of us) so hes going to be without a portion of it next yr...

do it for a yr and see how u get on... but long term i dont think its the solution to your issues...

older by the day

There was an article a while ago about a fellow he ran a front mower and behind was a pick up wagon . At least you could use the two machines separately. I wonder is that a bit heavy if the ground is soft.

Bangoverthebar

I bought a used ab70 zero grazer last yr for small money. Very simple machine, a bit of oil and away you go.

Contractor looking at €100 a load here. I couldnt make that work, plus the inconsistency of working around contractors time.

I try only cut dry grass, if grass is wet i bring small loads. Its a useful tool to keep cows feed.

Its like some lads have a diet feeder and are into feeding brewers, maize, extra meal etc.

Im into grass, grazed, zero grazed and silage.

jaymla627

It's probably a runner in your case, the load of zero-grazed grass was saving us approximately 3.5-4ton of buffer feed a day in the summer/early autumn, cows still where getting circa 2 ton of silage/maize a day but it would be up on 5-6 ton depending on weather when the zero-grazed grass wasn't going in, milk yields held up the same as any other year

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355426#Comment_121355426

Thanks jay

have looked at a fullly refurbed grasstech one . Nothing near that price but have heard mixed reports on that brand so not sure yet on what we’ll do tbh

coukd be paying someone to zero graze fir the first while before I commit

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355392#Comment_121355392

I have stood well back from it and looked at the whole thing

I’ve asked myself plenty of questions

this to me seems the best option. I could potentially cut back meal and get back under a tonne fed and hold the milk output

the big downside is the time it will take but comparing it the other options of cutting numbers or cutting a lot of silage and feeding it back when our cows are really geared towards grass it seems the best option

we’re making v good money here and heading towards a company to sort tax liabilities. Paying more and more every year despite the depreciation we have

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354903#Comment_121354903

Have a really good contractor here that was bringing in a load a grass all summer basically, it works grand and once you keep on a 20 day round, cows milk we'll off it, but Jesus it takes up some time out of your day, even having to put it in with loader then having to shove it in the second-time, if going in-house it will put a hour to a hour and a half daily on your routinebetween cutting and shoving it in...

I'd be very weary of a second-hand zero grazer too, contractor has a feed-all one on her 4 th season and she's giving a nice bit of trouble with wear and tear, he was going changing it but a new like for like machine is north of 75k now,

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355316#Comment_121355316

I'm not so delicate. I couldn't care less what you do. Just saying what I see. Take a stand back from the whole thing and look at your system or get some outside advice. Maybe you will have as much profit out of less cows and an easier life. That is all.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355284#Comment_121355284

See what I mean

you thought you knew enough about me to comment with a snarky view just like I thought I knew enough about you and your farm

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355094#Comment_121355094

Debt free farm 😂😂😂

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354903#Comment_121354903

I'm sure you've done the maths on buy-versus-rent but I see a few around me get a contractor to do their zero-grazing.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355053#Comment_121355053

Unlike yourself straight I wasn’t in the position to get a job for 10 years and build a house through it and arrive home then to a debt free farm

we all have different circumstances. My father isn’t killed with work.

He does as much or as little as he wants.

I will do what I think suits my farm best and you do what you think suits your farm best

but going back in cow numbers is not on the top of the list of what my options are.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355040#Comment_121355040

feeding really good bales made the first week of may plus maize and soya and 3 kg of a good nut in the parlour atm and the cows went up 1.5 litres on last nights collection when they got grazed grass back in the diet the last few days

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354988#Comment_121354988

Only answers that suit is what you want is it. I just quickly read your comment but it sound like you are building sheds, investing in more machinery, taking on a bigger workload with an aging father and all based on renting ground. Sure what could go wrong. Talk about risk and hardship for the sake of extra cows with no extra profit. Just my 2 cent like. Hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings or anything....

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354988#Comment_121354988

I taught you had your own baler ,surely making wilted quality bales is a better option then drawing watery grass in the shoulders as well as most of the summer this year anyway ,Will you be at zero grazing nearly every day where as the bales will be done over a couple of days evry 7/8 weeks

K.G.

Anybody on hire with one near you.more and more decisions coming down to labour here and it seems to be easier to make silage than zero grazing.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354961#Comment_121354961

Go way at feck

you know nothing about me or my farm bar what I post here.

just because you don’t agree with running a higher stocking rate doesn’t mean I don’t

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354903#Comment_121354903

Talk about being in a hole and continuing to dig...