Israel/Palestine Thread

Doctors without Borders nurse from the US recounts what she saw in Gaza. She evacuated last Wednesday

"Me being safe is the result of having to leave people behind."

"...Children with massive burns down their faces, down their necks, all over their limbs because the hospitals are so overwhelmed they are being discharged immediately after and being discharged to these camps with no access to running water, there's 50,000 people at that camp now, and 4 toilets. They're given 2 hours of water every 12 hours."

"fresh open burns and wounds, fresh amputations just walking around"

As it got worse the survivors even turned on the healthcare workers and because accusing them of being Israeli spies etc. for letting these atrocities continue. They "would have died in a week" without help from Palestinians in Doctors Without Borders. "only ate 700 calories a day" for 50 people each. No cell service. "The National staff (palestinian doctors)" didn't leave our side... "incredible men who have sacrificed everything for us -- time with their family, their own physical safety, their own water supply -- watching them fight to get us across the border knowing they were not coming with us -- they didn't waver -- [then we found out Abraham's] parents were dead, -- they were losing family members and friends"; "When I say we would have starved to death without them, I am not exaggerating." They also kept desperate civilians from othering them as conditions continued to deteriorate "with love and kindness, no violence in their heart -- they calmed everyone else down around them."

Anderson Cooper: Would you go back to Gaza?

"In a heartbeat. In an absolute hearbeat. My heart is in Gaza it will stay in Gaza."

"The Palestinian people that I worked with -- were some of the most incredible people in my life." "We lost a nurse weekend one, he was killed when the ambulance outside the hospital was blown up."

"I would like to send out a reminder that there are civilians seeking shelter there, and that my doctors and nurses didn't leave out of loyalty to their community; and, I know there is an idea being pushed right now that anyone staying behind right now is going to be considered some kind of a threat, and I want to remind people that the people that stayed behind are heroes. The people that stayed behind -- they know they're going to die, and they're choosing to stay behind anyway" "If I can ever have an ounce of heart they [they] have, I will die a happy person."

"I wake up every morning and I send out a text message [to the hospital staff], and I ask are you alive?, and every night before I go to sleep I send another message that says are you alive?"

Just like how the Troubles in Northern Ireland were entirely due to anti Protestantism.

Unless someone tells him differently he will annex the north of the Gaza strip.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/07/israel-war-news-hamas-gaza-palestine/

They know full well they can never "destroy Hamas"; if anything, their offensive is a recruitment campaign for Hamas. The entire "going into Gaza" thing is merely a pretext for another land grab and the forced displacement of Gazans (ideally to some other country).

Arabs rejected it all. And then the Arab states ganged up on Israel and lost.

Similar border changes and decisions were made in post-WW2 in Europe. Anyone went on rejecting the changes, ganging up on neighbouring country, invading them, hating the other party for decades, and waging terrorism culminating in a extermination death cult 80 years later?

No, everyone accepted the new borders. The prime example being Germany, which had millions people expelled from Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary and elsewhere, and went on becoming a highly successful democratic country.

It's akin the Germans driven out of the borderlands of Czechoslovakia after the WW2 (where they lived for up to 800 years) would reject the plan, asked Austria and Germany to invade Czechoslovakia, which would fail, and then waged terrorist warfare against Czechoslovakia ever since.

Source Associated Press.

So you maybe think Hamas are not capable of building bomb shelters, yet they can build extensive tunnels

Did she ask the lovely people if they support the two-state solution too?

Because only <30% do. Majority supports "from the river to the sea" i.e. a genocidal islamist project. Also marked as "Others" in the survey results below.

Shelters that are not built by Hamas, according to the post I responded to.

Explain.

Is this really your takeaway from that interview? I don't think it really is.

Any solution will be complex. Simply thinking force will do anything other than a short term reduction in rockets is naive.

What needs to be done is pull the rug out from under Hamas by giving a victory to Fatah in the West Bank. A UN mandate and UN troops on the ground in the West Bank. Massive investment in the West Bank. Both to improve the lives of Palestinians living there and incentivise settles to leave. Because leave they must. Working towards an independent Palestine based in the West Bank. Jerusalem to be designated a “free city” under UN mandate. Opportunities to improve their lives will see a move away from the extreme. It might be slow at first but will happen. All the time Gaza’s will see the improving lives of their kin in the west bank and start to hope for similar. In the short term an increase in security on the Israel / Gaza border is needed. Perhaps a UN buffer zone. Won’t stop rockets but will prevent oct 7th style attacks. Then go after the finances of Hamas in a major war. If this needs sanctions on Iran and Qatar so be it. Put the squeeze on them and send in UN troops to distribute aid. Target specific Hamas strongholds also, but prioritising the safety of civilians, all civilians. Would be a long hard path but the Hamas support would erode and eventually allow a more rational faction to emerge in Gaza leading to a United Palestinian state, alongside Israel with Jerusalem under international mandate.

No..

What I am saying is, Hamas built shelters would be specific targets for the IDF. The IDF have bombed UN bomb shelters for which they are given coordinates to prevent the IDF bombing them.

No, my point is Israel is full of ****. They'll never attack Qatar or eliminate the Hamas leadership. They'll just continue to primarily kill Palestinian women and children.

What the **** does a proportionate response even mean? Is it the same number killed? The same number of rockets fired? Or given that the attack on Israel was an escalation in the numbers being killed in a single attack, maybe a proportionate response would be an equal escalation. It really is all a load of bollocks to use proportions to determine whos right and wrong here.

Who is going to put sanctions on Iran and Qatar exactly ?