Is Ireland becoming a Woke Society? Are people too scared to say anything as it may offend…..
Are we too tolerant and easily lead?
This is simply rubbish, a fact is a fact a feeling is something else. It's a fact that all people are equal and you should proceed on that basis.
It comes out of the mistaken notion that people on the right are facts based when all evidence points to the opposite been true.
Right. Make your point please.
Everybody is directly involved in every issue. We all share the same planet. We all have a stake in trying to make things better.
I don’t want to speak for people, I want to defend their right to speak for themselves and remove legal barriers to their happiness
Interesting comment.
I get what you mean by the facts v feelings thing, but I’ve seen this line trotted out way too much by bigots.
A good example is on the the trans debate, in all honesty it shouldn’t even be a debate. Anti trans people say all the time that it’s a fact you can’t change gender and that a trans woman is still a man. They say this is a fact and that your feelings shouldn’t matter. Except it isn’t a fact, this is actually a feeling. They chose to reject the idea that biological sex and gender are different, a feeling they have. They then try to make a stand on “the facts”.
Another example is IQ. Plenty of racists love to point out “the fact” that African Americans have a lower average IQ. They use this single metric to proclaim black people as inferior. But again this is a feeling they have, it isn’t a fact. IQ is heavily influence by upbringing, it’s not some inherent trait.
The fact is, there are far fewer facts about people than “anti woke” people like to believe. People just pick a different set of “feelings” and defend them as facts. Both sides do it, but at least some people are honest about it.
As for identity politics. Another red herring I’m afraid. “Identify politics” was invented by the bigots to keep minorities down, not the other way round. It’s nice and handy to accuse someone of identity politics when all they want is an equal chance in life.
So by the same token would you disagree with quotas, reducing people crudely to their skin colour/biological sex?
Then I'd argue you are directly involved. I have trans friends also, but I wouldn't assume to know what they're going through or try to speak for them (at least, not without checking first).
I have a black friend, for example, who rolls his eyes every time he hears a white person try and tell another white person to use the phrase "person of colour". Not every black person prefers this term.
Some of the main traits of wokeism is the belief that feelings should trump facts and logic.That my truth, or his/her truth is more important than the truth , that it's not right to point out flaws in someones beliefs or argument because doing so would be un-empathetic.That only people who are sufficiently kind and caring (according to the wokesters) have the right to express an opinion and have it taken seriously.Another trait of wokeism show by some of the posters above is that only the woke actually have empathy or consideration for others
It is perfectly possible to criticise this obsession over identity politics and feelings trumping facts and logic and at the same time have empathy and consideration for others'
Wokeness attempts to tug at the heart and fog the mind.
A Cis-woman, you bigot!! 🤣🤣🤣
Personality type would probably be more important and I wouldn't read (sorry) too much into the research, but I'd say there is some basis to it.
From personal experience my mother is a totally selfish personality and she is almost totally lacking in any type of empathy.
She seems typical of a certain type of person.
Reminds me of the research that avid readers of fiction tend to be have more empathy. They can identify with different character types.
Yeah, I don't get where this callous idea where you shouldn't care about anything that doesn't affect you came from or why it's caught on to the point where people have to write it off as "woke". I wasn't in Ireland for the referenda but I'm so grateful that the electorate delivered a progressive result.
You either have empathy for people who have disadvantages that you don't, or you are a selfish prick.
I don’t think that’s fair at all. I’m not trans, a woman or in a same sex relationship. But I know and love people who are, I think it’s perfectly normal for me to campaign on their behalf’s. Even if I don’t know them personally I can be sympathetic to their cause.
I supported the marriage equality and repel the 8th referendums for instance.
For me, being "woke" is more about the ego than the actual cause. If you're directly effected by the issue, fair enough - as in, you'd expect transpeople to campaign for trans rights. But for a lot of the others, it's just virtue signalling and a chance to go on look-how-pissed-off-I-am rant on Twitter.
The most anti woke posters on boards are opposed to everything from refugees to combatting climate change to benefits of any kind for the poor or disabled. They even oppose sex education. Meanwhile they will treat the likes of a black Little Mermaid or female ghostbusters or transgender influencers as the end of the world.
Fyi, at this stage I'm comfortable in saying I have a disability and I don't view any of the so called woke issues to be a problem, it's not an either or scenario. And to be frank, the so called woke crowd tend to care far more about the above issues than the people imploding over them. To use an example, the LGBT community were involved throughout the campaigning and canvassing for Repeal. I know plenty that do canvassing for disability rights, poverty issues etc. Although based on my reading, you'd classify even basic accessibility issues as identity politics.
Anyway, back on topic.
@Facthunt my friend, you're asking three different and unrelated questions here, as for as I can tell.
Is Ireland becoming a "woke society"? No - it's just becoming more socially equal, which is neither woke nor a bad thing.
Are people to scared to say anything as it may offend? No, they're too scared to say something because it might be percieved as offending. They don't give a **** if they offend (and not giving a ****, again, is not nessecarily a bad thing).
Are we too tolerant and esaily led? Yes, always have been. First by the church, then by tabloid media and now by more mainstream media. I don't think there's ever been a perido in Irish history where we haven't been easily led. (NB - I think you mean more "passive" than tolerant" - could be wrong)
snarky: “good enough? is this new information you hadnt worked out before after several years on Boards?”
“I don’t write dictionaries for a living”
2 your definition of “woke” is more suitable for fascism than anything I can think of .
”Woke” ,as I understand it, is awareness of social issues and a sympathy towards the marginalised
I've given you two examples of group identity that proved you thinking was flawed and definition was erroneous; none of this challenges anything I posted.
in the common meaning of the term and how it describes what we see , it is group identity. there is no general interest in poverty which affects all races , disabilities , its all race, sex, gender issues. there are a 100 discussions over genders access to toilets compared to disability access to public transport for example. I apologise if I come across as being rude but I dont quite believe that posters are being genuine with their questions. If the topic was communism and was incessantly being bogged down with requirements for definitions of communism, I'd just view it filibustering, but as you have moved it on Ill go with that
And there's no indication that "woke" is the cause of that. Bad plots, rebooting classics, struggling to launch a streaming platform or CGI is not a woke issue. It's not because some idiot is outraged by the little mermaid being black etc.
That doesn't really change your definition because what constitutes "given preference" is massively speculative. I could argue the Nazis were given preference on the basis that they were led by a dictator. The Catholic Church, up until 1972, was a group identity that had preference in the Constitution - pretty sure I woudn't call the Christian Brothers of the 60s "woke".
Woke is nothing to do with group identity or preference. It's a perceived notion of awareness of social injustice - and you most certainly don't need to have a "group identity" regardless of whether or not you think it receives a special preference.
I'll ignore the paragraph where you said "race" was a philosophy or value system.
Beyond that, if you have to resort to childish insults, it's because you know what you're saying has been proven wrong.
okaaay, I dont write dictionaries for a living but if you must, its a grievance ideology based on people having certain immutable characteristic that by the philosophy define/limit their life outcomes and that somehow they need to be corrected by society.
I dont accept this as being true or needing to be fixed because it ignores the hundreds of other factors that make up the individual. It might be useful in the short term to extract resources from society as part of a political grift but its an awful personal philosophy which is limiting for obvious reasons
good enough? is this new information you hadnt worked out before after several years on Boards?
but they arent reasonable suggestions to what I wrote, though identifying as an Irish soccer supporter is probably like having a disability he he!
its more related to philosophies and value systems around immutable characteristics, for instance Race. so for instance if you take a Black woman, a woke person/philosophy would say she is oppressed yada yada , white men are somehow her problem and capitalism yada yada. A normal person would argue that your personal characteristics and thoughts of which Race is just one of hundreds defines your range of opportunities.
I feel like Im responding to a chimp or someone who has lived under a rock for the past 10 year, you do know this already? or is this brand new information?
You didn’t define it. You said defining it was a distraction
You have no idea what "woke" is if you think it's group identity.
People are tribal - it's an inherant human trait - so we're going to find identity in groups, that's nothing new. Being part of a religion is a group identity. Expressing yourself by way of waving an irish flag is having a group identity. Supporting Manchester United or Liverpool or whoever is having a group identtiy. Joining a model railway club is a group identity. Hell, joining the Nationalist Socialist Party in Germany in the 1930s was having a group identity - but I'd hardly call it "woke"; would you?
Disney is a major reason as to why Ron DeSantis is no longer a potential candidate for US president, but that's not really relevant to anything. Neither is Disney's profit/loss margin, number of subscribers or anything like that relevant because correlation does not mean causation.
I did, read my post, what do you want me to add, its a cult, a secular religion, a political ideology? a grift by narcissists
I find the desperate attempts to avoid defining the word both telling and pathetic. By your definition, I could categorise Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and Adolf Hitler as woke.
You keep saying that "woke" is bad financially but can't seem to back it up with anything more than unsubstantiated and fanciful claims.
I did above, and I dont know what your definition is, so link the post or copy it into your post
I find the what is "woke" question a bit of a fake diversion, you should be like a bankteller that handled so much real cash they can spot a fake without knowing why, so I dont think your question is genuine. But lest I be accused of avoiding it, its simple enough to describe, it has the common feature of seeing people as having a group identity that is superior than an Individual identity, and that some groups are given preference without considering merit. The only plus side of being woke (for me) is that its like living life with a disability, its its own curse , if people feel like living life with self imposed ceilings while blaming society for their problems, fine by me, its entertaining to watch on, just glad Im not infected with the cultural virus and wouldnt raise my kids with that disabling mindset.
As for Disney Im sure there are non woke reasons like streaming not being profitable but if they had better content they would sell more movie tickets and more subscriptions so they would have more money in the bank. Disney ruined Star Wars with their woke movies as an example, not seen any Star Wars movies in 5 or 6 years
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