Israel/Palestine Thread

blanch152 · 06-11-2023 05:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333229#Comment_121333229

Sounds more possible than some of the pie in the sky Hollywood movie solutions being suggested on here.

Overheal · 06-11-2023 05:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333228#Comment_121333228

Hamas reportedly will release hostages if there is a ceasefire. So if that’s top of list why no ceasefire? Bibi the Amalek smiter says the opposite, that the bombings will continue until hostages are released, like how do you even extricate hostages in the middle of live fire his position makes no sense for achieving the alleged top priority.

Sudden Valley · 06-11-2023 05:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333229#Comment_121333229

I think you are more positive in your expectations then most posters here. The Israelis and palestinians and usually after such bloodshed those advocating peace are ignored.

blanch152 · 06-11-2023 05:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333253#Comment_121333253

There will be a humanitarian pause, the US are pushing for that. The opportunity is there for Hamas to release the hostages during that humanitarian pause, giving the opportunity to turn the humanitarian pause into a ceasefire.

But you know, and I know that the death cult of Hamas will not do that.

Gatling · 06-11-2023 05:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333253#Comment_121333253

Most hostage situations in war zones involve extraction under live fire , helicopters and armoured vehicles in a lot of case no armoured vehicles at all

unkel · 06-11-2023 05:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333258#Comment_121333258

I'm realistic too. No such deal can be done without a lot of international pressure. On both sides. We were nearly there before back in 2005. It can be done again, but better and more sustainable this time.

Overheal · 06-11-2023 05:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333263#Comment_121333263

Neither will the death cult of Likud. They still have hostages of their own.

Danzy · 06-11-2023 05:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333146#Comment_121333146

Seems that soldiers and those at the bottom reported unusual activity but the top wasn't listening.

Cluedo Monopoly · 06-11-2023 05:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333201#Comment_121333201

So no credible link to back up your view then? I was actually trying to help you answer the question you are trying so hard to avoid. This must be difficult for you.

Lets have another go on Collective Punishment.

--------------------------

International Red Cross.

Israel/Gaza, Operation Cast Lead | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook (icrc.org)

Despite Israel’s declared intention to relinquish its position as an occupying Power by evacuating troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip during its 2005 “disengagement”, the international community continues to regard it as the occupying Power.

------------------

United Nations

How Does International Humanitarian Law Apply in Israel and Gaza? [EN/AR] - occupied Palestinian territory | ReliefWeb

Israel has been occupying the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza, which collectively constitute the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT), since 1967.

Contrary to what the Israeli government claims, Israel’s withdrawal of its ground forces from Gaza in 2005 did not end its occupation of Gaza.

That is because, ever since, Israel has maintained effective control over Gaza, including its territorial waters and airspace, the movement of people and goods, except at Gaza’s border with Egypt, and the infrastructure upon which Gaza relies, rendering the Strip an open-air prison.

Under IHL, Israel is required, as the occupying power, to make sure that the basic needs of the population of Gaza, such as food and water, are met.

-------------------------

Ruth Fitzgerald SC

Providing supplies to the civilian population vs collective punishment

Article 55 of the Fourth Convention requires the Occupying Power, to the fullest extent of the means available to it, “to ensure food and medical supplies to the population. It should, in particular, bring the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate”.

Common Article 33 provides that collective punishment is a war crime. Collective punishment is a penalty imposed on a group for acts allegedly carried out by members of the group and applies to international and non-international armed conflicts.

Contrary to its duty under Article 55, the act of Israel in cutting off water, electricity, food, and fuel to the population of Gaza punishes the entire population of Gaza for the acts of Hamas — is a collective punishment — as the objective of the siege is that of destroying Hamas.

------------------------

Let's rephrase the question for slippery eels out there.

(1) Has Israel been violating International Law with reference to collective punishment since the terrorist attack on Oct 7?

There are other articles I would like you to address. You have really struggled with this first one.

Sudden Valley · 06-11-2023 06:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333271#Comment_121333271

Unfortunately I don't think an organisation will develop in Gaza with any support of the people there that will be advocating peace with the Israelis. Not any time soon. Certainly not a few months after burying all their kids.

You may say you are being realistic but how is it realistic to say that international parties are going to put pressure on either of the two factions to make peace? Do you expect the US to put pressure on Israel and it seems the Palestinians listen to no one Internationally.

m2_browning · 06-11-2023 06:02PM

But wait there is more:

—-

Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. (Quran 4:56)

Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. (Quran 5:33)

Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. (Quran 6:70)

Those who are tormented in the Fire will have their foreheads and backs branded. (Quran 9:35)

Whoever thinks that Allah will not assist him in this life and the hereafter, let him stretch a rope to the ceiling, then let him hang himself, then let him see if his struggle will take away that at which he is enraged. (Quran 22:15)

Kermit.de.frog · 06-11-2023 06:05PM

https://twitter.com/NewstalkFM/status/1721521838650503285

Do these people not have better things to be doing with their time?

Overheal · 06-11-2023 06:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333321#Comment_121333321

Aye, outcome no less a tragedy.

I agree with the initial assessment on main. Years of trolling the border etc meant when - if you look at the 10/7 map IDF put out, we will assume for sense and dignity this is accurate mapping, the initial reports from all across the territory must have initially seemed like another tuesday of people throwing rocks or getting it to border clashes etc. not immediately clear the scale being coordinated across the whole thing at once.

one thing that really rankles me though is the presence of camps under their noses for this sort of thing, even training under the clear sky with mock rifles. Should’ve picked that up. Should be a legitimate target.

unkel · 06-11-2023 06:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333359#Comment_121333359

Yes enormous US pressure on Israel. And all parties must sign the agreement / accord.

Overheal · 06-11-2023 06:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333361#Comment_121333361

I don’t think a good amount of these kids being killed ever read or subscribed to that.

Overheal · 06-11-2023 06:16PM

UNRWA reports eighty eight of its members now dead.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/israel-gaza-hamas/?id=104617602

the highest losses they’ve ever had in any conflict.

m2_browning · 06-11-2023 06:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333399#Comment_121333399

I don’t think any of the kids on both sides (including an Irish 8 year old girl) gave a **** about the thousands of years of history of whom killed whom in that region which you use to excuse and justify Hamas sparked death orgy

Overheal · 06-11-2023 06:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333266#Comment_121333266

We aren’t talking Hollywood Rambo rescues behind enemy lines we are discussing there being safety guarantees for the voluntary hostage transfer.

Cluedo Monopoly · 06-11-2023 06:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333413#Comment_121333413

They are clearly telling lies.

Overheal · 06-11-2023 06:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333425#Comment_121333425

Nobody is defending Hamas.

Children with no affiliation to Hamas or what happened in that “death orgy” as you hyperbolize it, are under defense here.

Sudden Valley · 06-11-2023 06:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333395#Comment_121333395

I don't think biden or Trump are that bothered given by their recent conversations on the matter. I think we will have to wait till both are not in the picture.

Cluedo Monopoly · 06-11-2023 06:23PM

People should listen to the healthcare worker on Radio 1 now.

m2_browning · 06-11-2023 06:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333438#Comment_121333438

These nobodies on this thread should be screaming loudly from rooftops on this thread and in their marches to

return all hostages
ceasefire once 1

instead we have whataboutery going back to Moses about who is more righteous in killing whom

Overheal · 06-11-2023 06:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333447#Comment_121333447

“I demand everyone drop and give me three Hail Marys”

it’s played out.

markodaly · 06-11-2023 06:26PM

If Hamas remotely cared about the people they supposedly lead and fight on behalf of, they would release the hostages.

Beasty · 06-11-2023 06:29PM

Augme threadban lifted

Overheal · 06-11-2023 06:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333457#Comment_121333457

'If Israel remotely cared about the people they supposedly lead and fight on behalf of, they would release the hostages.'

https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5816/Israel%E2%80%99s-tormenting-of-Palestinian-prisoners-is-illegal-and-morally-unjustifiable

Tell me how · 06-11-2023 06:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333447#Comment_121333447

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333457#Comment_121333457

Can you both confirm that when you guys talk about releasing all hostages, you're including all Palestinians held without charge in Israeli prisons and are not just talking about the Israeli people held in Gaza.

If this is not the case, please explain why not.

06-11-2023 06:33PM

Unfortunately - I think Ireland needs to start being careful about what its says and some of the action it takes. Flying a Palestinian flag above Dublin city hall is not conducive at all. Jobs & the economy ultimately need some protection as horrid as that sounds there is self interest to balance in this. We can still of course make our voice heard by reasonable arguments.

A straw poll shows that anti-Irish sentiment is growing acrosss social media channels. The scumbag Israeli PR machine is in full flow to cover up the atrocities it is committing this very minute and Ireland is very much in the line of fire of the PR war.

The Israelis certainly do not like a small country criticizing them.

I will never waiver in the opinion the Israeli leadership are revelling in this blank cheque to obliterate Gaza at all costs.

jmreire · 06-11-2023 06:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332570#Comment_121332570

Sure, and as I have said before. that passage is taken from the Old Testament which Jews follow to this day, as do Muslims, with some modification's and additional instructions in the same death and destruction vein penned by Mohammad. Then 2'000 years ago, Jesus arrived, and changed everything with his new and everlasting Testament between God and man. Gone was all the death and destruction, ( in fact it was expressly forbidden) And its the New Testament that Christians the world over follow to this day. You will not find and verses exhorting the killing of "unbelievers" ( or anyone else either) in the new Testament.

Israel/Palestine Thread

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Providing supplies to the civilian population vs collective punishment