That's a good start. I agree with that.
Those moves may boost the other provinces. But that's not why those moves would happen. The moves would happen to benefit Irish rugby. Not Ulster, not Connacht, not Munster, not Leinster, they would be done to benefit Ireland.
Edit - I've joined this conversation halfway through so may have missed something. I see Paul talking about a draft system. I wouldn't want to see that.
No, the benefit is for the international team.
I don't see the point in Leinster hogging three potential international out halves in the two Byrnes and Sam Prendergast, while also having Ciaran Frawley who can play 10 there ably. Sure its nice having 3 quality 10s to cover the minor URC games, but I don't think it's benefitting the national team to have those guys restricted to 10 or fewer games a season.
Nobody on this forum has said anything like that. In an ideal world they all would produce everyone they need but that world has never existed. there always has been some movement between provinces and always will be a fair bit of movement in this pro era with IRFU controlling all 4 provinces.
all provinces are producing their own players but wont be able to compete directly on the same level as Leinster for very obvious reasons that is impossible to directly replicate elsewhere
Doubt the other provinces are queuing up for Harry Byrne right now
Ok. I realize that there's problems in the system. But another scenario could be a Ben Healy type scenario. X can't play for x province so feck it, he's off to another place. James Cronin went to England rather than stay in the Irish system. Some players may move.
I expect to see a couple of Leinster players leave this year. I believe that 1 could jump over to Stu at Racing. I wouldn't be surprised if Frawley or HB leave either.
Nor do I - and I agree with your post earlier - I don't want unwanted Leinster players. I want a couple of box office NIQs and the rest born and bred Ulstermen. But I don't know if that's currently feasible.
What I actually want is the IRFU to pour money into Ulster's underage system.
No benifit for Ulster! Hymmmm. Please stop, Harry is in the 23 right away.
Pour money to use where though? Into what areas of underage system?
Ulster would take him in a minute. Billy Burns and HB would be a good bit of depth.
What players would that have affected in the squad that just played in the RWC? Any?
I'm not sure what you mean. I hadn't mentioned Harry Byrne.
I think you will get what you want soon. There's no way that Sheridan, McNabney and McLoughlin aren't quality players.
It is noticeable over the last decade or so that some lads have come out of non traditional ares. Places like West Cork, Wexford and Offaly. There's scope for improvement of course.
Sorry! Someone mentioned him. I would guess he'd be really good for Ulster.
JGP was drafted in while being a sub. JOB also.
Certainly, a big push to get into state secondary schools and Catholic grammar schools. And club underage.
My youngest son plays for a club - came the whole way through minus. He's just gone to a school where rugby would be a sport far behind football, hockey. So he currently plays for both his school and still plays for his club. In a few years, he will have to chose between them.
A number of his old teammates have just gone to Catholic grammar schools that don't offer rugby. A number of them are still going to the club, but some are switching to GAA because it's prioritised in their school. I imagine a number of those currently still coming to the club will fall away as they want to play sports with their mates at school. If we could increase interest in those Catholic schools, or fund the underage in the club better, numbers would start to tell.
Here's hoping.
There are issues we can't do anything about - the lure of universities across the water is a big, big one. Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool. Don't know how we counter that.
If it happens, fine. But there is nothing to suggest that another province will beat Toulouse etc, even with a couple of Leinster player.
I'm not at all in favour of as much movement as seems to be being suggested in this thread, but for the record, I don't think this is true.
Munster came within a score of Toulouse twice last season. Ulster came within a point of them over 2 games the season before.
If we really wanted fairness, wouldn't it make sense for each Province to get the same salary budget, say?
To point being, it's geared towards Ireland.
It would probably affect guys outside Deegan, Connors. I guess osborne wouldn’t have been an early call up. Penny. Not sure about world cup squad.
i have to agree, im not sure of how eligibility for urc/europe works at this stage but it would be great if a player(s) could go to another province on load but with the provision that they would come back straight away if needed due to injury. i doubt that would work with competition rules though
i dont disagree with your point about players having to move if thats the option theyre given, it wouldnt exactly be the end of the world. having said that, alot of younger players would be combining studying with playing so i would think it could potentially cause problems with that
Schools should be used to as places to start kids off playing with aim to move them into clubs for longer term.
I never had to choose between club and school down in Munster. we were able to play both. now in the school we were in the lowest grade and we didnt train every week just occasionally but we only played in the cup competition we were graded in. we played 3/4 games
I dont think numbers will necesarily fall away because the kids arent playing with a school team.
funding age grade in clubs is key but how do you use the funding?
I honestly don’t think this is a problem. To my eyes, the academies outside leinster are pretty good right now.
I also personally don’t believe in the unending leinster talent engine. I think it will fluctuate up and down.
That would be fairness alright.
Also rotating the international games evenly amongst the provinces.
Of course that would be crazy and not good for finances and hence ireland, but at least it would be fair.
This is a ridiculous point. If the IRFU were to choose they could distribute kids at academy level, there are universities in all the places where provinces are based. The IRFU already subsidises the academies and they should properly be recognised as Irish rugby academies, etc. Anyway, the objective is to improve the standard of rugby throughout the country, having a top heavy Leinster side for the last ten years hasn't delivered. Back to the drawing board.
See the answer to Dub above, there are great schools in all the relevant cities. This comes down to making big choices about development, no-one has to play rugby and the IRFU is not set up to create opportunities to go pro for every kid who wants to. It's there to promote and develop the game nationally. A cold hard look at results suggests we need to do better, so how do we do that?
Honestly, that's getting beyond my expertise. Better coaching is an easy but realistic answer.
Ulster has made serious efforts to move outside it's typical heartland. A consistent flow of money dedicated to outreach would be ideal.
This isn’t a new idea but a school, club and the irfu could split funding for a coach, or facilities or whatever.
I agree, and am not advocating for it at all. Just making the point that if one is going to suggest fairness, they would have to take the rough with the smooth that comes with that across the board.
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