Budget 2024 and transition to EVs

McGiver · 26-10-2023 08:21PM #1

Literally nothing new there to support the transition. Business as usual.

Let's discuss 😁

ELM327 · 26-10-2023 08:27PM

The only confusion I have is if the half price tolls will continue.

I think the time is right to remove VRT on all EVs and increase it (as well as increasing motor tax rates) on ICE vehicles. Note that any change to tax wouldnt need to affect existing cars, just new cars, same as the 08 change.

Add €1000 base to the tax rate, so the €190 rate becomes €1190 etc, you'd see a quick change to EVs then!

Buddy Bubs · 26-10-2023 08:27PM

Increased Bik exemption wasn't there?

ELM327 · 26-10-2023 08:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288005#Comment_121288005

Maintained at the current level AFAIK - they decided not to implement the scheduled drop. For me thats not an increase

McGiver · 26-10-2023 08:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288004#Comment_121288004

The receipe is simple, we've been talking that for years.

Step 1 (for the cowards):

0 VRT on EV
Increase VRT on ICE. Review and increase annually.
0 motor tax on EVs

Step 2 (for the ones with balls):

Increase motor tax on ICE to reflect pollution and emissions, diesel targetted first, petrol second. Review & increase annually.
VAT exemption on EV sales

Do this until you get X % of EV sales and X% of EVs in total fleet. Then adjust by introducing taxes for EVs.

ELM327 · 26-10-2023 08:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288088#Comment_121288088

I mean, who could argue with that? Make it a cost neutral change, so increase the motor tax on diesels (new ones, not under current ownership) and reduce the EV motor tax and vrt to zero. Have an issue with it? Buy an ev.

liamog · 27-10-2023 12:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288096#Comment_121288096

Alternatively, have an issue with it, buy a 2nd hand diesel helping someone else move to EV

McGiver · 27-10-2023 11:41AM

How do we lobby the government to do somethingn about it? What concrete options do we have? Is the IEVOA doing anything?

At this stage, it's clear that the 2030 EV target is a nonsense. So the gov should be challenged whether they still maintain it or not.

Even if it's revised to a half it's unrealistic without serious changes to the gov policy.

ELM327 · 27-10-2023 12:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289859#Comment_121289859

I heard on newstalk we are already paying fines for emissions at a national level (to whom??), perhaps we should (should be required by the electorate) to use that money instead of paying fines to instead incentivise EV purchase, housing upgrades, heat pump installs, Solar grants etc, we're wasting the money paying fines

chrisd2019 · 31-10-2023 11:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288004#Comment_121288004

Be careful what you wish for, Diesel lovers like myself might clog up your scares charging points and leave you in a Q on your next long trip or overnight!

ELM327 · 01-11-2023 11:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308441#Comment_121308441

Does it really bother you that badly? Get a hobby, man.

GSBellew · 01-11-2023 11:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309401#Comment_121309401

Does it really bother you that much that I have no interest in changing my old car, there are no EV's in my price range that will cover any sort of driving that I require, I have no interest or inclination in financing one to do so.

EV Motor tax reduced to 0 ? It is the other way it is going to have to go to plug the gap.

VAT can not be waived, there is a minimum rate that must be charged within the EU, VRT can of course be zero as that is the Irish tax.

Take your own advice and get a hobby, man.

I have one, classic cars & am happy sticking with it.

McGiver · 01-11-2023 11:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290010#Comment_121290010

Based on the EU agreements, I guess.

Since the government refuses to do anything with the agriculture which is the largest emitter in Ireland (ruminants CH4, fertilisers N2O), their only plan is energy and transport. They should really double down on transport because energy itself won't cut it. It doesn't make much sense to be so lukewarm about the EVs. Huge fines ahead it seems.

01-11-2023 12:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309487#Comment_121309487

It's hard to imagine that none of the EVs cover any sort of driving you require. Are you towing horse boxes to corners of Europe or what? Genuine question from a fully EV household where we have covered over ~230k EV kilometres since 2015.

chrisd2019 · 01-11-2023 01:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309401#Comment_121309401

Plenty hobbies, Amen

chrisd2019 · 01-11-2023 01:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309487#Comment_121309487

well said, someone has to pay for all these freebies and discounts!

ELM327 · 01-11-2023 02:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309487#Comment_121309487

I am also a classic car enthusiast. The two are mutually exclusive. EVs , solar, batteries etc are also interests and hobbies of mine. The measures I proposed wouldnt affect classic cars (they are not on CC or CO2 tax anyway). If you read my post it suggested higher taxes on newly purchased cars, meaning that if you own a car now it is not impacted. You can eliminate VAT like the germans do, charge it and then cover it with a grant.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310167#Comment_121310167

Most purchasers of EVs especially new ones would be likely paying more than their fair share in income tax etc anyway so are unlikely to be anything other than net contributors to the tax take.

ELM327 · 01-11-2023 02:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309679#Comment_121309679

It's very easy to have no EV covering the sort of driving if you simply don't want an EV. That's perfectly fine. But unless you're super rich, you will see more and more costs to retain the privilege of driving an ICE car. I firmly believe that in 50-100 years, they will look on ICE cars like we look on the 20s-90s for smoking.

liamog · 01-11-2023 02:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310167#Comment_121310167

We can spend money on measures that improve the local air quality for Irish towns, or we can instead spend the money paying penalties based on commitments we've made to improve our emissions. If we don't want to pay penalties we can buy emissions credits instead meaning we are instead funding measures in other countries. Call me selfish, but I'd rather see us spend the money in a way that improves air quality in Irish towns instead of French cities.

DrPsychia · 01-11-2023 02:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310222#Comment_121310222

Agreed. There are many hurdles, mostly related the government/council's slow pace of developing and incentivising infrastructure(grid upgrades, on-street parking) before wider adoption occurs. Planning needs to be fast-tracked, tender charging infrastructure rollout and award to the best provider(Tesla) on condition it's open to everyone. Cut VRT/VAT on EVs up to a certain price.

McGiver · 01-11-2023 04:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310216#Comment_121310216

Cars for the disabled in Ireland are VAT exempt or rather there's a VAT refund.

Even if 0 VAT is illegal in EU/EFTA/EEA there are ways around it. Many countries do that including Norway and Ireland. VAT refund is simple, administratively. I'd prefer a tax credit like in the US. That's even better.

McGiver · 01-11-2023 04:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310350#Comment_121310350

Cut the red tape and regulate the newly developing charging market (before it's screwed up - set up clear simple rules of operation). One easy thing the gov could do.

drunkmonkey · 01-11-2023 04:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288088#Comment_121288088

If the government implemented either of those two suggestions they'd push massive depreciation onto current EV owners some of who are already reeling from huge manufacturer discounts.

It's definitely not a vote winner.

McGiver · 01-11-2023 05:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121311116#Comment_121311116

I wouldn't say massive if done gradually. Multiple countries did it or doing it. Instead incentives here are reduced which is nuts at 20% of market share and few % of total fleet. This is a place on the adoption curve to increase them not decrease them. It makes no sense, rationally.

liamog · 01-11-2023 06:09PM

Mod Note: There's a thread for environmental discussion (https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252347/evs-are-worse-for-the-environment-the-myth), keep it out of this thread

Budget 2024 and transition to EVs

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