Great effort and Ireland's best world cup performance wise
What a game for the casual viewers!
Ireland needed the set piece to work well and it didn't. Well targeted by Nz. Congrats to them
Someone mentioned squads and ages, whether in this thread or the match thread, so I thought I would look where Ireland stand compared to what most would consider the other stand-out teams at the moment. I am particularly looking at anyone over 32 at the start of this World Cup as in 4 years time you would think a 36 year old will struggle to make a squad, never mind contributing meaningfully. You see a few older than 34 olds still producing at the top level but they are few and far between so that is why I am thinking anyone over 31 at the moment will not be there for the next World Cup. So the average ages are as follows,
Ireland 28.9, South Africa 29.9, New Zealand 27.6 and France 26.8.
Within those squad though you need to look at where the ages are. So for New Zealand you will need to look at replacing the hookers and locks from the squad that played last night (Coles is 36 and Taylor 32 and their locks are Barrett at 29, Retallick at 32 and Whitelock is 35) will need to be replaced. Lock is an area where they have struggled with and having to replace 2 from the squad and hoping a 33 year old Barrett will still be doing it will be a gamble. They do look well set up for the rest of the squad though, Aaron Smith will need to be replaced but Roigard looks promising and then Beauden Barrett is probably playing his last World Cup at 32. Moanga is 29 and McKenzie 28 so you would expect them to be available in 4 years time (at least age wise, not speculating if they will be available on selection criteria for playing in New Zealand).
France just looks set for now and the future. They only have 2 players over 31, Antonio and Taofifenua and only another 6 players at 30 and 31 years old.
South Africa is just old. They will need to replace one of the hookers (Mbonambi is 32), 4 of the 5 props (only Nche is younger than 30), at least 2 of the locks (Etzebeth is 31 but already had 113 tests played so a lot of mileage and Mostert is 32 and only Snyman is under 30 in the squad), at least 3 of the loose forwards (starting 3 today is 31, 32 and 37 years old and the replacements are 30 and 36 - Fourie as cover, only Wise and Van Staden is under 30), De Klerk and Reinach are 31 and 33 respectively as well and Le Roux is 34. Of the 23 for today I think they will need to look at 14-16 replacements based on their age alone. These are players that are 30 or older from the start of the World Cup and Pollard, who is an old 29 and has been playing international rugby since 2014 and has an injury record almost as long as his test wins.
Ireland needs some work on the squad, but its not as bad as South Africa. So the list for players currently 32 or older is Herring, Kilcoyne, O'Mahony, Murray, Sexton, Aki and Earls and you have an average age of 27.4 for the rest of the squad without those players. The problem area I see is that there are a lot players around 30-31 years old. But at the same time you have young players in the same squad already. There are 3 areas of concern I think, loose forwards, scrumhalves and centres. For the loose forwards you only have Doris under 30 in the current squad, for the 9's it is only Casey and in the centres only Ringrose is under 30, and he is an old 28.
The good thing is there will be enough experience going forward and there is enough time to find players to replace those that will need replacing. Maybe the first couple of Six Nations will need to be experimental to find those replacements. It could be better, but it could be so much worse as well.
New Zealand showed the way forward when they fired the coach after losing the 2007 QF.
I missed the first scrum but the 3rd penalty was a joke. Porter had him man and I have no idea why that was not an Irish penalty. The NZ prop (not sure if it was Lomax or Newall) was not in a good place that scrum and it was one of those calls where the referee saw something early and went with it once the scrum crumbled. The fact it was the New Zealand scrum that crumbled did not matter, Barnes saw something and he ran with it on that scrum.
He wasn't bad today, just a few 50/50 calls that went against Ireland. But good teams overcome those to compete in a match, which Ireland did. Bad teams lose composure and fall away in a match and use that as an excuse.
As for the performance, I think Ireland played below what they could but that was caused by New Zealand coming out of the blocks fast and keeping it up for 80 minutes. We saw New Zealand being capable of this high performance against South Africa in Auckland this year, but they did not need to keep it up as the match was won in the first 20 minutes of that match. That Ireland did not crumble and got it back to 17-18 at half-time is a compliment to the team. A tough loss for sure but I don't think it is anything to be ashamed about. The team was beaten on the night by a quality team and the small margins went against them. The Jordie Barrett effort to hold up the ball over the line and the bounce of the ball for Sheehan on the touch line stand out.
You must have been watching a different match to me. I saw none of the above.
Barnes was spot on.
That is just not true - Barnes was fine
Watching some clips and analysis of the game online and everyone saying that we were badly done by the referee and TMO. Aki was the victim of a high tackle at the very end of the game, Porter was harshly penalised in the scrum, NZ moving across in the lineout, forward pass for their second try. We probably shouldn't go as far as looking for a replay, but feels like we were cheated out of it. IRB doesn't want us in latter stages at the expense of NZ. We're a better side than them. Just bad luck along with poor refereeing
Sorry, Sexton regardless of his age etc. is still our best 10 & comfortably at that!
We have a serious mental block when it comes to world cup quarter finals.
Hitching our wagon to a 38 year old outhalf cost us. Giving him a final send of at the 6 nations by going all out for a grand slam at the expense of developing a back up outfalf we could rely was a huge error. Too much of this last year has been about Sexton and his last hurrah. Barring a HIA and being forced into it, I don't think Sexton was ever going to come off tonight. He's 38 and started every match this world cup. That's just nuts.
I think the management made a lot decisions that were driven by fear and they showed we a real lack of confidence in our squad. We should have never started with such a strong team against Scotland. Never mind doing it against Tonga. Far too many players played far too many minutes.
This is true. No excuse tonight for it not to malfunction after it was a problem against SA. We can imagine that our campaign will be over in QF in 2027 so Ireland can plan back from that.
O'Connell should be out on his ear too. The lineout has been an absolute shambles all World Cup
At this tournament there is. History yeah.
Andy Farrell's greatest crime was keeping Sexton and Murray around after the last World Cup.
Conor Murray was past his best in 2019 and yet he was sent on this evening. No other nation with aspirations of winning a World Cup would have a 38 year old as their starting fly-half. We need to be far more cutthroat when it comes to thanking players for their service.
This time around Farrell needs a thorough clear out - if they won't be around Down Under in 2027 you shake their hand and thank them for their service.
The build for Australia 2027 starts now and if that means foregoing a few Six Nations or Grand Slams, so be it.
Has been for a long time. Goes out of his way to crow about every loss Ireland or Leinster suffer. There's been so few in recent years that he needs to get his licks in when he can.
It’s a sickener and rugby is not my favourite game but there was so much to admire about this team.
What has let them down is that they let the occasion get to them. They made line out errors v South Africa as well and got away with it on that occasion but still didn’t learn from that? Also the scrum where they wheeled it on the NZ put in and gave them 3 penalties? Totally unforced errors.
Sexton kept kicking for touch and we know why because he didn’t have the confidence in himself to take the 3 point opportunities unless they were easy central chances.
Theyre still a great team that has achieved so much winning the Grand Slam and a series in New Zealand.
Be interesting to see if they can build on it. Maybe Farrell will go to England and O’Gara can take them on to the next level at the next World Cup?
There is a small wafer between Ireland, NZ, SA and France. The others are way behind atm.
There really isn't
Only one of those teams has failed to get past a quarter final
I agree after tonight. How many chances do we need to win a quarter final? We are not destined to do it. I just don't know if we ever will do it? This defeat is hurting.
Simply cannot make the amount of mistakes we made in a RWC quarter final against NZ. We lacked execution. That held up ball cost us a rwc final (Arg in the semi??) In fairness the NZ defence was incredible.
The better team won.... only just. But they performed when it was needed. We mostly didnt.
You're a ****-ing clown.
He should be judged on the World Cups. He was part of the 2019 coaching ticket for that debacle as well. The 6 nations is a joke. World cups are all that matters and he’s been woeful at two. His time is up
And the scrum. Not sure what game the poster you quoted was watching?
If you think Farrell should get sacked off the back of a 4 point loss to the all blacks you should probably get a lobotomy. Developed into arguably the best coach we have had. Didn't get a mickey mouse draw of Argentina in the world cup either.
Thought that the ref giving a penalty for Connor Murray using his arms as he moved to compete for a ball in the air near the end was very harsh. Allowed the New Zealand team to have a four point lead in the closing stages of the match and they knew just not conceding a try would give them the win. Always was going to be a tight game and a few more bits of luck going Ireland's way could have seen them win and face an Argentina team that did not look that much better than Wales in the other quarter final. Fine margins win games and New Zealand had a very good match in defending well and scored when they had opportunities. Would have liked to see Kilcoyne on sooner in the second half to help the scrum and Crowley to change the Irish attack a bit but hard to not just credit New Zealand with a good win and good luck to them.
And no team in sport has as many off days on the most important days as the Irish rugby team.
Forgot to mention the alcohol dependency aswell! silly me.
Nah some are just prepared to face reality and point out uncomfortable truths.
If you think I'm happy, you're very mistaken
Look sure, atleast we aren't as obese, divorced, hairless, and depressed as Ewan Mackenna tonight. One positive of the game.
TRC is just doing his usual.
Loves it when an Irish side loses.
Look folks time for just a little bit of reality after a couple of single malts.
We squeaked past SA, got squeaked by NZ and even if we had beaten NZ we were going to have to squeak past France or SA again having dispatched Argentina.
Statistically to win 3 x 50:50 games is pretty tricky.....and the history is largely irrelevant, different time, different players etc. I don't buy the bottlers thing.
It was always going to be bloody tricky.
I think the best thing NZ did tonight was their short kicking game which caused no end of problems and was no doubt Uncle Joe so hats off to him.
But if we had sneaked it at the end we would all be lauding Farrell.
Margins are so so tiny at this level.
Thanks to all of the lads, it's been brilliant and we go again. That's it.
Thats sport for you.
Sometimes the best team has an off-day and loses. It happens in all sports.
Absolutely. No doubt he will get a free pass.
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