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Ford Transit high top extended conversion in Portugal

manonboard

Hey Folks

I remember reading a great thread here from one of the lads that had fantastic detail in their conversion. I was a bit inspired by it to share my own progress.

I moved to Portugal recently, following a break up, and I'm building myself a campervan as a bit of a passion project and to help me focus on myself more. I started my conversion last month. I work on it during the weekend, and maybe one night each week. Im not in a rush so i expect it will take about 1 - 1.5 years.

I purchased a 2019 High top extended Ford transit. L4H3. Then got to work on it. Im just following vids on youtube, learning from the reddit community, and lots of trial and error. I have basic skills that i learned in secondary school wood working, but a light hobbyist interesting in electronics.

Tearing out walls/floor, Treating rust, and painting

This is what it looked like when i bought it. It was in good shape but just dirty and not suitable for my needs. All the walls and flooring needed to come out so i could check for rust or problems everywhere.

This was the biggest patch of rust, just on the wheel encasings. It looks like the owner before hand (a delivery company) cut the wheel casings to have these flat stackable areas rather than the rounded wheel encasings that come with the van. The did a poor job welding and there were several small holes letting moisture in. The metal also was poorly protected.

I started pulling the wooden walls off the van. It was very very tough work. After all the screws were removed, there was an inustrial strength glue used everywhere. It wouldn't come off without alot of force.

I then had to buy a heat gun, and melt the glue and use a hot chisel to remove it and the wood. It took days. After the glue was mostly removed. I used a wire brush on my drill to grind away the residue that remained. Another few days but it was a bit of fun overall.

It was about 25C inside the van because of the sun, so i frequently had to stop because of the heat guns extra heat :D here is a general shot of the worksite

Next after removing the floor which only took 20 minutes. I began working on the hole filling in the bad welding job, the rust treatment and painting. I first wire brushed all the rust off the encasing. I then applied a rust solvent which finished the last remaining specs of rust. After it dried. I used an epoxy metal resin mix to fill the holes i could see. only 3 holes but one was about 2 inches long (5 mm thick).

Here is the epoxy resin filled hole. This stuff about 1 day to dry. Only about 20 minutes to apply. It is rock solid after a day.

I put some silicone around the edges and then painted it all with Hammerite white paint. I think its now much much better and i'm very glad i did this prep work. I have zero experience with rust or metal so it was all new to me.

I then washed it three separate times. It was quite dirty and sticky dust. After washing I painted every single place I could see anything but white paint.

That's it so far. Feel free to make any comments or criticisms. I'm happy for feedback anytime if it saves me making a mistake!

Next I will be putting in an insulated flooring made of 60mm wood beams and 60mm XPS insulation. I think i choose too big of insulation for the floor. It will work of course, but 60mm is probably a bit silly. 40mm would be perfectly sufficient for the floor i think. As the van is a high top, im not stuck for head room. I'm only 5' 9. The wood is also heavier than i thought it would be.

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manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642663#Comment_119642663

Thank you for the tips of products. I'll be ordering your suggestion and ill follow your advice and get large rolls of wire! I haven't thought much about the electrics simply because I'm terrified of the plumbing :D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066868#Comment_120066868

Thank you for the interest! Actually nature was one step ahead of me the following week. There was 3 more weeks of terrible rain. I checked every point inside the van as it was an excellent water test. The van never once showed signs of water ingress. The fan, the mounting points, and all the door seals were perfect. I was pretty pleased with that.

Yes that is exactly the type of battery i have. I feel pretty positive about the battery.. HOWEVER... if i was doing it all again. I would NOT purchase a 48v battery. The eco system for it just does not exist in any useful way. The panels suitable for a 12v are cheaper, the products available at 12v are way more affordable and available. The 48v products are outrageously expensive and very slim pickings. Simple solutions like 12v alternator to 12v battery charging are simple...12v alternator to 48v battery..almost impossible unless you drop 2500 euros.

Ive been slowly rail roaded into using as little devices as possible on 12v (lights + fan), and the rest i'm just going to use at 240v. The 240v circuits will mean i can cheaply buy products from a huge regular section. The wire is easy and cheap. I have decided to just bite the efficiency losses by acknowledging ill have my inverter on a lot during the day. My alternative is to have losses at 48v to 12v very often. I already have a 48v to 12V converter so i still have options for 12v...but i had naively assumed i could use 48v products a lot more.. they just don't exist really.

Regards extrusion.. The biggest mistake i made was thinking i would do everything in extrusion. There is just no sensible way to water proof a shower room using extrusion. Wood made it WAY easier. It allowed me flexibility in the van which is required because nothing in a van is straight. I could carve it up into whatever thickness any particular slot/groove/curve needed. I could stack it endlessly to increase depths. I could add pieces here and there so fast for extra support without having to disassemble the rest of the joint to add more connectors. The final clinch for me was figuring out there is no way i found that i could attach plywood panels to it in a way nearly as strong as i could to wooden frame. All i have to do is attach more wood to a frame which takes minutes.. and then ive lots of new places for attaching plywood panels to.

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066913#Comment_120066913

I do not have one at the moment no. When i create one, ill remember to post it up for you.

I have a 48V battery, a dc to dc 48v to 12v converter. Converter will power the lights + fan + usb sockets... maybe a fridge.

The 240v will power everything else from induction cooker, computer, and whatever other sockets..

Water heater element is diesel. Its a bobil van air + water combo. Excellent product. Electrical heating element is back up or time saver.

Air heating is same product, so diesel.

Buford T Justice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069058#Comment_120069058

240V fridge will be considerably cheaper and more efficient than a 12V one.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069058#Comment_120069058

Much appreciated but sounds like youd stick with 12v battery next time?

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071717#Comment_120071717

Yes I would.

I just have not benefitted, nor do i expect to benefit from the 48V choice. I might even suggest a 24v. There are less 24v products but its still quite abundant eco system. The nice thing about 24v is of course, half the wire size. Especially for high draw appliances like if you ever want Air conditioning. Lots of 12v and 24v models now available.

I cant see a single benefit i'm going to get from the 48v that i would not get from the 24v with much more available features.

Maybe by next year, some more 48v products will be available.. but thats just wishful thinking.

Any gains i make power wise using 48v (smaller wire) are now going to be offset by having to use the inverter more since ill be running nearly everything on AC other than lights + fan...and maybe fridge

The biggest drawback of a 24v i see is that it cant attach directly or as directly to the alternator charger. Its possible to get 12v->24v chargers, but 12v->48v is still not available on a product i can afford that is safe enough to attach to my van.

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069211#Comment_120069211

Definitely cheaper.

Can you tell me any thoughts you have on efficiency? Ive read that 12v would be more efficient because they are designed for lower power situations so have better insulation, and im not aware of how DC->AC would be more efficent than DC-lower DC? (as in i generally dont know how conversion even works)

Buford T Justice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084462#Comment_120084462

I've not done any sums on efficiency or anything and in my build I was more concerned about the price point for the appliance than anything else. My thoughts are that a domestic fridge would be more efficient as there's more R&D potentially put into it than a 12v one, since the market would be considerably smaller. If you have an inverter in the van, then it seems to make sense. Just my own opinion

spaceHopper

You have a lot of screws and nuts with no split washers or tread lock. You probably should apply some tread lock to them so that they don't shake free

manonboard

Thanks. Yes good idea. I need to remount all of them and will absolutely use some thread lock.

manonboard

Hey Folks

Another update.

Shower/toilet room progress.

So first thing first. The van is not straight, level or boxy. The drive way is a slope so i cant even hang a piece of string for straightness. It has been really hard for me to learn how to make a square room in a round environment. I see people adding lots of wood and distance from the edge but i truly want to maximize every inch of space so i decided to do it my way. The curvature of the room is 10cm less wide at the top than the bottom because it hugs the walls of the van. I don't notice it when standing in the room, and I'm comfortable with it.

I want the shower room to be as tall as possible, and to have a sizeable tray in the bottom. I want it to start from right behind the driver seat.

First i had to build a bulk head wall. I pulled out the metal bulk head wall and began replacing it with my own wooden one.

I put the tray down and built a floor frame around it for other wall frame beams to fit into it.

I attached beams to the van structure by using bolts. I used cross nuts to provide the threaded hole. These are invaluable in the build I find. I can put a bolt anywhere and its rock tight/super strong.

It took a long time to figure out where to place beams, how to get them roughly straight, and how to have the structurally sound. A huge help was a beam on the ceiling which was within 2 cm of where i needed a beam. So i just put two together and put it in the roof. It provided a huge stability and a place to work off.

This was 1 of 2 super hard parts. The curvature of the roof affects the bathroom shape. I felt i would lose too much room moving the bathroom back. It was a judgement call. I wouldn't blame anyone for moving it back, and maybe adding a swivel seat so you can make good use of the space.

Its structurally very very sound. You could do pull ups off any part of this. The reason I used a particular bracket here is because a crack appeared in the wood. So I just wanted a little extra safety. I need all sides, even these at angles, to be flat surfaces so i can add a sheet of wood later as a ceiling. This works here well enough i think. It took effort. I never really worked at angles before. Everything got about twice the amount of screws or brackets as was required.

I just kept adding more and more support beams for structural support in different locations. I also needed places were i knew i could screw panels to at the edges to make sure the corners are super tight and water proofed.

This corner piece was an absolute disaster. I spent several days working on it. I think it looks like **** and i plan to just cover it up. Maybe i can make a shelf from it. I hate it. I hate it so much. Every single side of this was angled. Every piece of wood would encounter the van edge at an unusual angle at different lengths. In the end, i attempted to just build a square box around the curves. However there was nothing i could bolt into well. So i had to built extensions and then join them all. Its a horrible mess and i wish i had a better idea. FEEL FREE TO SUGGEST SOMETHING

That gap in between the wood is deliberate to compensate for the curves of the van.

I felt this was enough frame for now. I knew i might need to add more wood for screw positions but at this stage, this room is super strong.

I got started on the shower basin and drain.

Drain

This was the a very scary part of the build. I hate the idea of a leak under the floor. I drilled a pilot hole and checked it was in a good location underneath. I then just cut! The offset distance is intentional. I bought this 1 single molded piece of drain. It minimizes the risk of leak. The end of it comes out the bottom of the van. The ONLY place this can leak into the van is between the 'drainer strainer' and the rubber gasket/drain compression fit under the tray. Its a compression fit and i sealed the edges of it with marine sealant. I think its safe, ive tested it.. but ill never not worry about it!

The drain looks a lot like this: Its just more Bulbous shaped with a slightly offset pipe. The offset is irrelevant to me.

I then just connected some waste pipe to the drain bottom. That small hole is the pilot hole. I sprayed the area and edges with hammerite white metal paint. Im going to squirt some expanding foam up into that area to fill the air gap around the drain. Is this a good idea?

There is it. Water coming from the drain. I didn't find any leak but unless its super obvious.. I cant really see how. The shower tray is glued down with Marine adhesive. Its super strong, sticky and flexible. The wood frame alone is super tight around it so the glue is just extra helpful.

Any suggestions or questions. Fire away!

manonboard

Long time no Update. There was love, travel, decisions, stresses and everything else in the beautiful round of life. There was also much van building so without more delay. A big update.

I worked mostly on the Toilet/shower room. As you can see in the picture below. There is a very large cable trunk running across the room. This has about 80 wires inside it. I dont want this here. I want it in the areas behind the substructure of the van so i have nice flat walls to use. This turn out to be 13 hours of work.

I cut the cable trunk and broke all the wires into lots of different bundles. (There were approx 12 blue wires.. so i put only 1 of each color in each bundle so they dont get mixed up). I then moved the cable through all the existing holes in the substructure. I was required to drill one hole near the front where the cable 'starts' entering the sub structure.

After I pulled the cable through the sub-structure (I put a big wooly sock on the end to push it through easier).. i then set about reconnecting all the cables.. there are over 80 of them. Maybe 100... it took 13 hours of work.. WHY? Because i was 15cm short on the cable join points... I had to add 15 cm of new cable between each wire.. it was horrible. I regret it so much.

I used this fantastic product which look like see through heat shrink.. it includes solder already in it.. I just push two wires in.. heat it up with a heat gun.. the solder melts..the plastic melts..and everything joins together so well. Its a fantastic product. This is the product:

The end result turned out to be great. The cable is completely hidden behind the substructure. The van did not work again until i had all the cables reconnected. It was pretty scary. It was probably a bad move.. but it was a move i made. Nice flat clean walls.

Now that the cable was out of the way. I started to insulate behind the shower room. I decided to go with some mineral wool/rock wool i had on hand and some fiber insulation. In hindsight.. this was not great. I didnt know there was such a product called ArmaFlex.. I think its a superior product but i only discovered it after i completed my work. This current insulation works very well though. I think armaflex will also be less likely to allow water to creep behind it through the air, and wont hold moisture so much.

However, this insulation is still quite good R value. It was also super easy to place behind an existing structure where as armaflex would not be! Im very pleased with the quantity of insulation i put behind this wall and ceiling. I really packed it in there well without compressing much. There was just lots of space so it is a very well insulated area of the van now.

I then started working on building some walls finally! This was very very exciting because it started to feel like a room rather than just infrastructure. Its really hard to stay motivated for 14 months when you are just looking at infrastructure all the time.

I bought some cheap board to make rigid stencils of the walls. These walls need to be near perfect because the room needs to be waterproof for the shower. Its very very important to get this part right so its worth the 35 euros of board it costs for the whole room. I made a million and one alterations to the stencil until it was very well.

I traced it on to the half inch ply wood. I used half inch because it allowed the flexibility to bend to the corners and sides, while still being super strong. After all, the walls will carry no load, only the frame will support weight. Lighter might even be possible too.

I put the walls up and realized that there were still some areas along the sides that had no 'frame' beam to screw into. I added more where necessary. I paid a lot of attention to this part before i even did the walls.. but my inexperience shines through and i missed quite a number of places!

I attached the walls using screws and glue (to the frames!).

WHEN you are doing the walls. Do one ENTIRE wall first.. before even stenciling the next well. The bend of the wood, the thickness, the flexibility, and the tension all moves the next piece of the adjoining walls position. It was POINTLESS to make all 4 stencils at the same time. Stencil, wall, attached, then stencil next wall. I learned this the hard way :D :D

Yayyy it finally started to look like something hahaha.

Next up, while i still had access to the ceiling of the room. I decided to add active ventilation. This turned out to be FAR more problematic than i intended because no vent i could find was slim line enough for the space between the van ceiling and the framing of my shower room.

The tube part stuck down too far.. and the fan component that would go inside the wet room (attached to the ceiling) added 6cm.. way too far into my wet room and hanging from the ceiling... Even if i cut the pipe to be shorter.. it was still 3 cm too much.

The other side of this worked pretty great though! Cutting holes in van is pretty easy tbh. It just requires a bit of care and attention. Keep holes small as possible, measure ten times, cut once. File the edges down, use a rubber gasket. Compress the fitting however it works.. and then use a ton of high quality marine grade sealant. I have 4 holes in my van walls now.. All completely waterproof.

I decided on a new approach. I cut the pipe, removed the frame bars, and ran this 80mm ducting from it to outside the shower room. The pipe was 60mm so i used this clamp ring and covered it with aluminum tape too.

Later i will make a vent in the side of the wall of the room. I will attach an inline fan outside the room that will suck air from the wet room and then push it out this ducting. I think it will work just fine. The inline vent option also will allow me to connect a second 'intake' ducting from the kitchen cooking area and push it out this ducting as well.

There are some added benefits to this too because i have a huge air maxx vent in the back the van. So on days where it might be good..I can pull air in with the air max and vent out using this. There is a massive difference in capacity so that will need to be balanced a little. Luckily there are 10 settings on the air maxx vent. Its also above my sleeping spot. So i can suck in/blow air on to me when its hot and this inline van can help remove that air too.

Overall this is actually a much better solution. However because it was an accident, I didnt get to decide where this mushroom vent goes. There is no reason for it to be over the wet room at all.

I added the ceiling panels in, and attached a couple of 240v water proof downlights. These lights are just for testing and place holders as they were cheap. I want 12v lights. I hooked these up to a regular plug so i could test and have light in the room for further work. They only work when i have them plugged into my extension cord in my house :D

That's all for now. I'm working hard on it again now as i recently took a trip in a van for 9 days and i LOVED it. I cant wait to move into my van. I'm really excited for it.

Any questions or suggestions are more than welcome!

[Deleted User]

I would be a little concerned about the fibreglass/rockwool insulation. Unless you have near perfect vapour barrier between it and the living space moisture will migrate through it and when it hits the outer shell it will condence and drip into the insulation which will hold it and saturate. This will be a perfect breeding ground for rust. Really none porous Urethane sheet is the only really sensible approach in a van.Alternatively a sealed layer of silvered bubble wrap between the inner and the rockwool will minimise vapour migration and add substantially to the insulation value.

When people buy people carriers which have been insulated with rockwool/fibreglass its typically the first job to rip it out and replace it. Condensation is a huge problem in vans - much more so than buildings.

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683460#Comment_120683460

It's certainly something that popped into my mind. I initially was more concerned. After more research, i felt more comfortable with it. There are many many builds (in fact, most) that use mineral wool and no vapor barrier which are doing just fine after many years. In my opinion (and insulation seems to be a magic art rather than an agreed standard), unless you can make a perfect vapor barrier, its quite problematic, as there is no way for any moisture to ever escape from the walls too. I don't have the environment/tools to set up a perfect vapor barrier in a dry atmosphere which is important when setting up a vapor barrier.

I will be switching to Armaflex XG for the rest of the build, so I do think you have a good point and i wish i had use Armaflex + mineral wool (for all the gaps Armaflex cant be put in)

In terms of insulation, the mineral wool will still allow some air movement slowly over time. In the same way that air may bring moisture, it will also help it leave on warmer dry days which is most days where i am. The most important aspects seems to be to keep air gaps to a minimum, and to keep the van warm and dry with moving air. If that is done, then condensation is suitable managed.

Heating wont be a problem as I've a diesel heater planned and and i have good airflow with my 2 active ventilations.

10-10-20

Good work!

A VCL (vapour control layer) is critical in any location where you install insulation, especially on a van where you'll be living within. The VCL goes on the warm side of the insulation, right behind the wood panel. It will stop what @Shoog is talking about, but it's not going to stop all of it. Ventilation alone also won't control the moisture as too much of it builds up and is retained within the insulation due effectively to condensation. The VCL needs to be continuous and lapped at joins to prevent ingress. Many of the UK camping forums will have good guidance on this as it's much more problematic in the UK/Ireland, but that's not to say that it can't affect a Portuguese camper either! Your best defense for moisture might be to use the power of the sun to heat the van on all sides with the doors/windows left open after use (ie, rotate the van 180 degrees so that all sides get sun to dry it out over the course of a few days).

On the drain question from Jan (a bit late now, eh!) about using expanding/insulating foam around that exit point, that foam has a habit of trapping water in the pores so I would use no expanding foam in that location as if there is a leak you will not know about it till it has progressed quite far into the metal shell.

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689334#Comment_120689334

This is really useful help and guidance thanks a lot. I will make sure to heat my van often as you say on each side. Thanks for the tips. Good thinking on the drain hole, I actually haven't filled it yet for those exact reasons so i'm glad to hear some confirmation.

Its such a hotly debated topic. I spent sooo long researching it and still couldnt even tell if it was needed.

Arguments for:

Should reduce moisture from breathing/living area which is warm, from entering areas were it is colder. Condensation forms.

Works well only if it has a very good seal.

Works in buildings with proven history. (stops moisture coming in from outside which tends to be semi permeable substances (long time periods)).

Arguments against:

Van walls will get hotter than living space very very often as metal heats up to very high levels in sun (portugal based).

Sealing is incredible difficult, and van has lots of gaps and holes which will definitely still let air in.

Moisture will be trapped behind VCL and cant escape well.

Van exterior is largely non permeable (except for holes and bad rubber seals)

There are some great experts telling me that i should do it, heat and air conditioning designers with years of experience.. then there are exactly the same type of qualified people saying its not needed as buildings and vans are soo different. For myself, I've decided not to use a VCL (other than the rest of the van will be armaflex insulation which is waterproof).

Really appreciate the feedback guys, hope its known i appreciate it even though im choosing to not follow this guidance for the barrier.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120690128#Comment_120690128

That's ok. You're in a different climate and there are trade-offs with these things. Cost and complexity are valid limits. Maybe compromise and try keep some vents open into the insulated areas so that any damp air can come out - just small slits or such top & bottom might do. The very activity of driving the van will cause air changes within the areas, so maybe that will work for you.

[Deleted User]

Sheeps wool is the best solution for your situation. Unlike rockwool which saturates and collapses - sheeps wool hold moisture with no adverse effects and then releases it when conditions are right, it also doesn't shed fibres and absorbs air pollutants. Armaflex (or something similar) is what I used on mine, it comes in a sticky back form and is sold mainly as sound insulation but will also double up as heat insulation. We then covered it over with silvered bubble wrap and finally covered with ply and carpet. Its highly effective at keeping the heat out of the van and with the back door open and a draft it is generally be cooler than outside.

However anywhere where it is missing does generate condensation to the extent where it will dip from windows on a cold night. If the vapour has made it to the cold side of your insulation - it will be dripping back into your insulation and this is an absolute certainty. Such drips will not be evenly distributed over the insulation, they will run and accumulate in corners where they will be trapped and build up leading to a high chance of rust. A heated space, such as provided by a diesel heater, will only make condensation worse because warm air has a much higher moisture carrying ability. Your windows are your friend as they been the coldest surface overall will preferentially generate condensation in a spot that is easily monitored and managed, and divert moisture away from the hidden spaces behind your insulation.

Its all a matter of judgement - but an imperfect vapour check is far better than an absent vapour check in my book.

manonboard

Update time: A fair bit of progress has been made since my last update. Ill update part now, and part next week since there is so much changed.

Lets finish with the bathroom and shower room first! I was delighted with this outcome!

Added vent for sucking out the humid air from the shower room. That vents through the roof through an inline fan (yet to be installed)

One of the many things that makes and breaks this room is obviously its water tightness. I decided to go with a tanking membrane solution. Its essentially thick rubbery paint. First you paint on the corners and joins. You then add this rubber backed tape onto the wet rubber paint. This is somewhat not needed according to some people. The rubbery paint is quite effective. However, it never hurts to be cautious about water in a van. For the little extra cost, I used it.

The room got 2 coats of this stuff, and the corners/joins got 4. Its quite fast drying, and makes a mess. Its thick going on and dries thick too. It is a wonderful substance and is very very effective. Its pretty obvious the room is waterproof through the walls pretty quickly.

Next up i added the tap plumbing holes. It comes as one unit. I tried a couple other things but they were all too weak and flimsy. This solid (ish) piece of plumbing ordered from amazon proved very effective. It has half inch threaded tap holes at the appropriate distance from each other by standard expectations. I would like the backing piece to be a little stronger. Its not as strong as it looks but there has been no problems so far.

Then i joyfully added my first 'functionality' item. Everything else up until this point just felt like infrastructure. Nothing i would physically use myself in a day to day sense. Here are my taps. (well here they are being test fitted). It has an thermostatic value which i think might come in quite useful because my hot water tank is not too big. As the hot water leaves and is replaced by cold water. The % ratio of cold to hot will change very very fast. I hope the thermostatic value goes some way to regulating more hot water in to compensate as the shower continues.

Before putting them in permanently. I wanted to add a feature wall so:

Here is the shower installed also in the feature wall. It took me HOURS to figure out how to install the shower bar lol. There was no space at the top and the top was already on the wall n sealed lol. The shower head has a ON/OFF button which i really wanted. I also attached a longer hose to it. This allows me to easily take it outside the side door of the van to use it to wash off things before coming into the van. Like surfboards or dusty/dirty items. You may also notice that i have silicon sealed the entire rooms joins and edges. Ive used the shower a few times now, and so have my friends when camping. No water has ever been detected outside the room so I'm pretty pleased with this. It is probably the scariest n biggest risk to me.

This vent is for the natures head composting toilet. It comes with a extractor fan built into it. It helps dry the solids area and keeps a negative pressure in the toilet. I must say.. i was pretty disappointed with this fan. It comes with a 50mm pipe to extract the air from.. however the fan is EXTREMELY weak. I don't think ive seen a smaller weaker fan in any desktop computer even cooling memory down. It seems like a type of fan that might come attached to a graphics card but weaker. It just seems silly in hindsight to cut a 50mm hole for such a lack luster fan.

The natures head toilet is SUPER comfy to sit on, but if i was to do it all again. I would pick a much much cheaper box toilet for 200 euro that allows you to put a bag into the poop area. Far easier to clean, and that means far more hygienic to me. 5 times cheaper and doesn't require a fan/hole. It IS super super comfy though.

So that's my toilet/shower update portion.

Water, water, where are you?

I decided to go with undermounted water tanks to try save as much room as possible in the van. I don't ever intend to be in freezing conditions so im not worried about that risk.

This is my 48 liter grey water tank that i mounted under the van. Its quite difficult finding places to put something like this. This is near the front, just behind the drivers seat. It was quite easy to make sure there was enough clearance height wise. I think i could even have larger tanks.

Here is the 78 liter fresh water tank. It is dead center near the back. I don't have a spare wheel. So i put this here. In the future i would like to move it and put a spare wheel in.. but atm the moment, this will do. The NUTS are anti slip nuts and perform great. One issue i have is that the ground is never really level. There are some air holes on the top to allow air to leave the tank when its being filled up.. however since the ground is never level. These tend to leak small amounts of water even though the tank is not full. Its kind of annoying. In hindsight i wish had a 120L tank but a 78 liter will do me for now.

Here is my under mounted pump, and accumulator. I must admit, that it took maybe 5 versions of this just to get them to work. The filter on the left came with a NON screw ending so i had to use plastic hosing to connect it.. Well how do i connect that to my tank which had a far different size? I had to use metal female connections to plastic male threads. It is not advised BUT it worked perfectly. You just got to make sure not to over tighten. The plumbing had tiny leaks in almost every part over a few weeks of testing. To others, i suggest.. go to screwfix, get a half inch brass female adapter on each end of every plastic component..and work from there with your normal piping. The plastic threads wear out too easily.

Im super pleased with the shower room/toilet so far. Its been working just fine and offers a very nice facility to make it feel more homely. There are some design mistakes in it, but nothing others will notice i think. If anyone wants any lessons i learned from it, please feel free to ask or DM. Its been solid and watertight for a couple months now. No issues with that part. Overall, the infrastructure and room took about 4 months to build (weekends)

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221446#Comment_121221446

Awesome progress.

Can you give more details on the materials you used on the bathroom walls, really curious about those.

The fan on the natures head is purely to create a draw of pressure so the smell is only going one way. You wouldn't want or need a powerful fan for this as it would draw more power than is necessary and would be noisier.

Oh another shower question, what did you use for the door? A curtain or a sliding yoke (name escapes me)

10-10-20

Yes, good update!

Just on the pump and accumulator wiring, make sure that it's all secured against any movement as otherwise the wiring will open up and allow moisture into it, leading to corrosion and faults.

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221761#Comment_121221761

Thank you,

Yeah you are correct about the fan. It just feels so 'much' for a 50mm hole for such a small air movement. Though it certainly works. I cant say otherwise to that. The toilet has exhibited ZERO smells and been used in all ways.

Yes, certainly, Ill post links to products i used or as similar as i can find.

Materials:

5 layer plywood for the walls.
120 cm shower tray (it would be better if it was 100cm).
Single piece shower drain: Similar: https://plumbing4home.com/wirquin-james-multi-directional-shower-waste-drain-90mm-360-degree-high-flow/
Tanking kit: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07PDLD834/
Tap support bracket: https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B085W2X9QZ
20mm version of this piping: https://www.netrauta.fi/komposiittiputki-uponor-uni-pipe-plus-salkona-s-16x2-0mm-5m
Similar Feature wall pvc panels: https://www.leroymerlin.pt/produtos/pavimentos-e-revestimentos/revestimento-em-pvc-e-madeira/revestimento-em-pvc/grosfillex-ladrilho-de-parede-gx-wall-11-pcs-30x60-cm-marmore-cinza-90156239.html
Then bathroom paint for the ceiling (also has been painted twice with the tanking rubber solution)
Bathroom silicon for the joins of the walls to the shower tray (walls resting over the shower tray edge, not to the side of the tray, so water drips onto the tray)

I've installed no door at the moment. It's just a low priority. I installed a 4 euro shower curtain until i buy the door. There is always so much higher priority stuff to do. Cooker, sink, bench, windows :D

I really like the shower drain i used because it keeps holding water like a U trap so i dont have to worry about any back pressure gas from the waste tank (grey water).

Tanking kit is something id highly recommend. Its straight forward to use, and extremely effective. PVC panels are glued OVER the membraned wall.

I personally adore the 20mm composite piping i used. It uses press fittings that i must compress with a very large leverage pliers designed for them. I have not had a single leak in any compressed fitting. They are rock solid and super usable. They have enough of a bend available that you can avoid many connections as they bend through holes in the van etc. I have 3 connections on the cold water. 1 breaking off from the accumulator into the van. 1 breaking off to the hot tank. 1 breaking off to a sink and then into the shower.

manonboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222184#Comment_121222184

Thanks. Good points. Yes since those photos, everything has been secured and wrapped with hard conduit plastic. I tend to miss some photos because as you can imagine, its unpleasant being under the van for so many hours so often lol. After the work is done, and tested, its usually dark and end of the day.

manonboard

Here are some extra pictures of related parts.

This is the tool used to compress the fittings for no leakage connections. Very straight forward. Tool is a bit expensive at 120 euro.

The hole for the piping (and wiring to pump. This hole gets filed smooth. Spray painted with hammerite metal paint to prevent corrosion. And filled with expanding foam to block the remaining air flow.

Here is the joins between the walls and the shower tray. You can see the walls are over the shower tray. Plenty of silicon.

This is how i held the panels for the feature wall during the drying time for the adhesive.

Here is the back of the shower room. I will build storage here so that i always have access to shower and extractor pipes. There is the venting for the shower room. That aliminium foil part in the middle is where there is a 100mm inline 12v extractor fan.

You can see the flexibility in the water pipes there. They are super useful in the van. Reduces the risk of more connections and keeps it super easy.

manonboard

Long Update: New Bed design - electric bed lift

I decided that my current bed layout which is horizontally fixed, really limited me on the location of where my seating will be. With such a large shower room/bathroom. Im pretty limited to one of the sides. That further limited my kitchen to just one side.

I felt brave enough to try a significant redesign. I decided to create an electric bed lift - horizontal lay out. I picked up a lot of new skills from electrics, aluminum profiles, wood working, and probably the biggest skill i learned.. Mental calmness to sit through a problem until i experiment enough to figure something out.

The bed:

I added 4 large wooden posts, one for each leg. They are bolted to Rivnuts i placed in the van structure. They are super solid. Posts half the thickness would of been fine. However.. If you measure a transit van, you will fine the floor and the roof are in the shape of the a trapezoid. So i needed to bring the bed corners out in places. When the bed lifts into the roof, it needs to only be sized as the smallest space up there.

I purchased 4 linear actuators. There are many possible options but what i liked about these was the straight forward nature of them. They have a huge amount of force so i dont need to worry about the weight of the bed. There's really no stopping these when they are engaged. They'll crush most normal objects.

They run on 12v. between 2-4 amps depending on speed/force etc

Mine are 750mm in length. They extend about 700mm. That means the SHORTEST length you can have using them is about 780mm since it includes brackets etc.

Here is a link to the product i used:

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07T7N7K7M/

Here is a link to the very useful brackets i used:

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/mounting-brackets-performance-actuator-adjustment/dp/B08FHZ3V2L/

The linear actuators took quite a bit of time to get lined up right. However that really is all because a van is far from straight or squared/rectangular or level.

Up above you can see i attached the actuators to the post. There is a nub/spike coming out of the bottom of the actuator. Its for a bracket to attach to. I didnt want to use it due to the 3 cm of height it steals from me. So i drilled a hole in the floor and placed my linear actuator over it. It saves me 3cm and locks the actuator pretty well mechanically in one plane of movement (x). I added sound deadening material to places of contact with the post.

The Y plane of movement is handle pretty obviously because there is a big bed on top of it. When the actuator extends, its pushed down into the floor and bed goes up. I decided at the moment (3 months tested) to use plastic cable ties because there is almost no force applied in the Z axis that pulls/pushes the actuator away from the post. I put some brackets at slightly askew angles which allows me to 'clip' the actuator into them with a bit of force. Its worked really well.

One time a person left a solid object in the way, and the cable ties broke. The linear actuator popped out of the hole, and continued to extend. Nothing got crushed and damaged. I love this set up. Its been extended and retracted maybe 300 times over the previous 3 months. From camp trips to testing. There has not been one single time anything failed.

This above is the bed at the high stage about 85%. It can go a bit higher safely.

Here below is a view from the underneath. You can see i reused my bed frame from the previous static bed. The aluminum profile is light and easy to use. Flexible and strong. There is many other ways this could be built. Once you can drill a hole into the material for a bolt to attach. It would work.

Below, you can see a really tricky use case if you wish to make an electric bed lift horizontally. The sides of the bed cant be raised up because the van is wider here than at the top by about 20cm. Thats huge. These flats will remain fixed and be incorporated into some bench design. This was quite tricky. So far it has worked out really well but its certainly a con of having a width wise bed lift. The big bonus is i have so much extra room for other kitchen layouts etc.

Above is my memory foam mattress from Ikea. I cut the sides into lengths for the fixed positions and the middle for the rising/lowering part of the bed. An ELECTRIC KITCHEN KNIFE is the perfect tool for this. Its such a better result than manually cutting it. My mattress is 19cm. I think a 12cm could also be quite suitable. Its important to remember that every cm is a cm of less sitting height. Should you and your partner be in your bed, things like that are important over time for things like intimacy. Nobody feels comfy hunched over.

I added some armaflex 19mm insulation to the area where i intend to place my electrics. This stuff is amazing. Really amazing. Super good. Water proof. No air gaps on the metal, and very easy to install. Its downside is cost. I would highly suggest it if you can afford it.

Electrics Update Below:

This was my second attempt at building my 'electrics board'. It works great atm. Its worth mentioning that although this looks fairly simple. I have rebuilt this about 5 times from scratch so far.

Starting from the right side to the left. I have a dual pole circuit breaker so i can turn off the input from the solar.

Besides that is the smaller blue box. Its a MPPT controller which converts the wide voltage varying input of the sun into a very stable recharge voltage for my battery. I have a 48V pylon-tech US3000c battery. Electrics are something that come easy to me. I just like them. They work or don't work. Easy to play around with them. If you are using a 12v system, its extremely safe to learn. The voltage is not high enough to cross your skin. Unless you do something pretty silly, you are safe.

The larger blue box is the distributor. Its essentially just 2 metal bars with big fuses. One for the positive and one for the negative side of the DC power. In most set ups it acts as a place to bring your big wires. E.G: The battery & the solar input both meet here which feeds the system. The outputs are the '12v fuse panel' that leads to your other devices, and the inverter. You might also have your car battery charging your system, so you'll have a wire for that here too.

The big red switch is a hard bolted isolator switch for my system. It stops all power from the battery going into my system. Both this and the solar circuit breaker must be turned off to kill power to my system for maintenance etc.

The red line has a fuse installed on it. This ANL fuse is the type of fuse you use in case of something terrible happening with your battery. Batteries contain a huge amount of power. Lets say in your distributor box, you dropped a black wire onto your red bar. All that power would try to run out into the wires. The fuse here would blow and stop that process extremely quick. Faster than you'll react.

Its worth mentioning that the Distributor box also has MEGA fuses on every single wire pair going into it. You want to be very protective. You want to use fuses that are rated to protect the wire, not the device.

The blue box down the bottom left is my DC DC 48v to 12V converter. It converts my 48V to 12V which most of my devices will be using. Even a 12V should use one of these because a 12V can be 11V to 14V in reality. We charge a 12V battery with 14V. You don't want 14v on your 12v devices. Its not usually very good for them. Most can handle it though for a long time.

On the right hand side is a 2000w inverter. This makes DC power to AC power. I found this model to be super affordable and useful. Ive held it at 2100w no problems for extended periods of time. (testing). I originally wanted a victron multiple 48v II.. However victron dont do a 12V to 48V DC charger from my alternator. Since i need to break away from the victron eco system.. it was pointless to drop 1.3k on an inverter. I wont be using shore power. I already have solar powering it, will have alternator power, and shore power is not something my lifestyle would be dependent on much. This inverter was 15% its cost and suits my needs perfectly.

On the left is my 12v Fuse box. It powers my various devices and uses blade fuses rated to the wire. It powers my vent, my bed, my cooler, lights etc.

Bed speed controller:

Here is a speed controller i got from Amazon that works to adjust the power that goes to the bed lift actuators. At 12v they take 1 minute 50 seconds to get to max height. At 18V it takes 1 minute flat. DC motors are incredibly flexible usually at taking higher voltage inputs. The important factor is heat build up. However, the minimum amount of times the actuators are used per day makes it very safe to do. I accidentally had it on 20.1v for 3 days before and there was no issue. I keep it at 18v for safety. They have been this way for about 100 extensions/retractions without issue.

Its important to note that this device does not increase the voltage, only reduces it. I have a 48v input, and it reduces it to 18v for me. If i only had 12v input, I could never have more than 12v with this setup. Its quite easy and cheap to buy a 12v->18v booster if you are interested though.

Here is the finished state at that time.

manonboard

Here are two short time-lapse of the bed build and to see how it moves. You can see the space underneath it where i plan to add a bench and table.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10sKL8XQiumWmX4vCIwll3OHCE-RWWXbM/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10sWggAZ0MSGVhEOZRVmyYT8XJGGcCrfy/view?usp=drivesdk

The Ging and I

Well done on the bed lift !

10-10-20

Bed Z-vector speed controller... I've seen it all now!! 😂

You might consider adding an overcurrent protection device to the linear actuators if they don't already have it to prevent crush injuries. I'd have thought that you could get them as stand-alone units... maybe a good search of amazon will throw one up.

[Deleted User]

Very nice work on the bed, impressive. We're looking at using a fixed bed purely because we want to store folding bikes and I couldn't see a good way to do that with your kind of setup. Would love to do it though, it gives you so much more useable space inside the van

A quick question on the mattress, have you anything else underneath it for airflow? I'm considering getting stuff like the link below to increase the airflow to prevent any damp/mold under the mattress so I'm wondering if you used something similar or just went with the cut-outs on the base. Regardless of which route you went, how have you found it so far. any issues? Maybe damp & mold aren't as much of an issue in Portugal so you probably don't need something like this though, no idea

https://www.rubbersmart.co.uk/product/dri-vent-anti-moisture-mattress-underlay/

another version

https://customsizebeds.co.uk/product/uncategorized/anti-moisture-mattress-underlay/

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121229711#Comment_121229711

Oh, that's very smart stuff.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121229722#Comment_121229722

Yeah saw it on a youtube vid a long while back and thought it was genius. Such a simple solution to get rid of one of the worst sources of mold. Hard to find info on whether its actually any good though but it stands to reason that it would work as designed