I have a feeling the specifics will be gone over in multiple sub-threads, but let's use this for discussion of the report in one neat place, shall we?
Horrible-looking link to the PDF, but it works.
€200 million headline increase and a specific target of 400 additional head.
Its not in line with a curve to achieve the LoA2 commitment, but we don't have the capacity to do that anyway, until the structures are in place.
This is almost entirely a management challenge for the next 2 to 5 years, not a money one.
Feck all increase in the headlines from DPER.
So the prebriefings of the budget are in hand already but I haven’t seen a single mention of anything defence related other than the comment from Berry regarding the Sea Going Allowance, so any bets on what we see? I mean it’s not like the world has got anymore unstable since the Commissions report…
To be realistic, given when we are and the only thing that has been suggested is the report about the Sea Going Allowance going up, how low are people's expectations? 10%-20% below inflation increases? And straight up headline cut of budget? Selling off the Navy? Shutting Baldonnel as that's being blamed for noise around Dublin Airport??
And a ship, I mean talk about spare resources! That's almost waste, DPER might have to have another look at cutting costs...
And I wish that was a joke or just sarcasm.
"Sure you did the job with what you had...in fact did you need 3 aircraft?"
Sure the minister of defence has already said that everything was fine and everyone should stop moaning about any imagined shortcomings in the operation. Why would you need alarm bells?
Yes was thinking that. You would also think that after last week with only 1 military helicopter availble to the state there would be alarm belts ringing
Its far too late for anything released to have an impact on the budget, whatever the DF gets has already been decided (most likely with little input by anyone who actually knows anything about the DF), why do you think it was kicked back so far?
With the budget next week will they have to release the implementation plan by monday to allow for how much they need from he budget?
Yeah it seamed very light and a rehash of what was said before . The detailed implementation plan still has to come in the coming weeks
Surely that comes with some very big question marks, I mean the clock is ticking on this government at this stage realistically, so unless we get a tender within 12 months or so, its likely to be punted to the next government and who knows what they decide. Same for the suggestion of refreshing the AC Helicopter fleet, is that to start in 2028 or be in service by 2028, cause if in service then again the tender should be starting relatively soon.
Still seems plenty "soft" to me with lots of HR speech and promises of future outcomes.
Allegedly 2028 for the Radar which is not to bad when you consider Tender-Construction-Training-operations
The Guards got effed over on that front by FEMPI too and have yet to see full restoration.
Thats one of the reasons I wouldn't be optimistic about a load of compensatory allowances being set up to fill the gap.
In any case, public sector Unions and non-union representative groups alike are very wary about allowances after they were detonated the last time. The ask will be core pay and pension entitlements. As it should be.
Let’s see if Michael Martin has a backbone in the next few months …. as has been suggested sidestep the issue of pay via allowance’s- the guards have been making out like bandits for years on that basis …
Delete, doesn't matter.
Are they? This has been getting worse throughout their time in government this time, and given their positions, they were ideally placed to push through some stopgap measures if not actually start pushing through ways to fix this, instead we get soundbites about how Recruitment must be stepped up with no actually effects.
I mean even now, we should be deep into deciding budgets for October, where the implementation plan would be needed, and instead we get another holding statement, and likely another missed year of investment.
Can that not be dealt with by benefit of allowances, like "at-sea-allowances" or "Shooting hazard pay allowances" or "family separation allowances" or some other such jiggery which most civil servants wouldn't be getting unless they hop on a UN tour?" That would leave the base pay scales unaffected.
Is there actually anyone in charge at the moment?
Sure it’s not like they can go anywhere else…
https://www.independent.ie/farming/machinery/john-deere-seek-irish-army-engineers-to-fill-key-dealership-roles/a2051342485.html
Because of the current analagous grading attached to the NS. And all public servants. And they are not linked to other seagoing services.
Fiddling with any one grade, any one allowance, in the public service pay schedule, is like ripples in the water when you cast a stone. You'll have everyone from lab assistants to Oireachtas stewards crying foul.
I'm not saying its right, but thats the way it is. And given that a) junior teachers and pre-reg nurses, to name but two, still can't get onto a single unified scale and b) the Government are trying to avoid pay driven inflation at all costs, I don't hold out much hope of them opening the coffers in any radical way to address recruitment and retention.
Which is not an optimistic situation.
Given other seagoing PS get higher rates, why is this an impossibility?
Yes and specifically I know that Martin. McGrath and Coveney are shaken by the Naval Service situation. Its not just the employment presence, there is great Community ownership of the NS tradition in Cork City and Harbour area. Two maybe three elections in 2024 have focused the minds.
However, and there is no getting around this, the only way to truly address pay deficiency, is to break into the public sector pay agreements and thats doomsday stuff for any centrist Government.
I guess it becomes which Doomsday is the lesser of two evils for them....
So?
The Government have nothing to lose by ploughing on with the path of action they have adopted. Some leadership in this area would be a change.
Would there need to be any regulations changed to allow civvy maintenance contractors to serve on a naval ship?
I know the air corps used an american to fly the gulfsteam at one stage but that was unarmed so probally allowed
Let's see what the government actually does, shall we? They do seem to have been awoken from their blinkered state that perhaps they actually should do something about DF personnel recruiting and retention.
As I said over on Twitter I think the NS is terminal at this stage, what needs to be done is too hard and too contentious. The gov won't give the needed budget to up tech etc pay and benefits to give the NS a hope in hell of being competitive to private industry. that would open up the PS unions wanting their slice of the cake.
So from a gov perspective better to let the NS wither to a point of complete inoperability, they can then turn to the country and say its gone to far to salvage in any economically viable way, not long after that some subsidiary of KBR or whomever will get a nice lengthy contract to run a service with crews from wherever.
The AC might survive slightly better if only and the army has the ceremonial duties, the horsy club and the bands the politicians like.
In fairness, there is hopefully more to come out than just that. The Army is configured as if it is a pair of mid cold-war light infantry brigades with a few newer systems like Javelin and a few dozen MOWAGs (and apparently no divisional assets to allow the two to work together). The ability for one of those brigades to fight and win in the modern era is... limited. If it is going to retain a proper infantry brigade role, there needs to be a massive re-think of how the units are organized, trained and equipped. (When was the last time there was a Brigade exercise, out of interest? Even just Bde staff level). Otherwise, the units are going to be merely administrative and a lot of the combat support features such as artillery or air defense should be retained at only a token level for familiarisation purposes.
I've been gently prodding Irish field grades I've encountered the last while on the matter, and it's a question they seem to be discussing in closed circles as well. "What's the desired end-state?"
The table of organisation of the Defence Forces going forward, has been decided.
There will be three components of equal status, with a separate Chief of Defence and his staff. There will be a larger special operations force across the Army and Navy and no doubt significant cooperation across the services, but the structure is essentially a settled argument.
Maybe its time for a shake up and dismand the army and form a Marine Corps under the navy to act as a fully mechanized infantry unit. With ATCP leaving the defence forces the armys primary role will be overseas
