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General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

citytillidie

Fixtures for each team.

Mod Note: 27/06/23 - this is a General Thread to discuss the Premier League.

If you support a Premier League team you should be aware you are likely to read posts that are not always complimentary about the team you like. You are welcome to make counter points but you are not welcome to make comments about posters or fans of a club in response to points you don't like. Posters doing so will receive forum cards and or thread bans.

Mod Note: 21/05/24 NO Man City Charges Chat in this thread - it has a specific thread.

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y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190438#Comment_121190438

100% its a consequence of not wanting to ruin the flow of the game and far too many in the media and here subscribe to that idea.

which is horseshit. just get the correct decision.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190432#Comment_121190432

"You lot"?

There were multiple posters tryna make issue with the referees having been abroad a few days before. The same way the Saudi's only bid for Salah to unsettle Liverpool. Its the amusing bizarre conspiracies that are cooked up that do more harm.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190391#Comment_121190391

To be fair, that's not really the case is it. Of course plenty of teams have had good goals disallowed, Liverpool included, do you think this is the first injustice against them on the field of play?? the uproar is about the absolute shambles of the VAR process, like how can anyway listen to the dialogue and not been concerned about the state of the whole set-up!

awec

I will theorise that football (particularly the PL) has always had a hard-on about VAR making decisions quickly to avoid ruining the flow of the game, and this is probably at least partly a consequence of that.

In rugby, one thing the referee will do is walk through the decision to the TMO after the TMO makes the call, so everyone is on the same page. But this adds time to the process.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190425#Comment_121190425

When you have at least three people involved in a process mistakes due to human error really should never happen in this situation.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190351#Comment_121190351

I don't know what some of you have been reading because there's been little in the way of conspiracy here. Christ you lot destroy this thread

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190402#Comment_121190402

There are issues with the process, and of course they can (and should) make changes to prevent a similar human error happening again in future, though ultimately you'll never remove any possibility of human error from a process involving humans.

But it was clearly just a huge mistake as opposed to some of the other theories that have been thrown about the past few days.

Infoseeker1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190395#Comment_121190395

I think top 5 get CL which itself is a worry as that is 25% of the teams in the league, no to european super league but the CL is heading that way with the number of games involved next year.

Spurs definitely have a chance of top 5 but Africa Nations could impact that as a few key performers will be gone.

pjohnson

So after all the hullabaloo its just human error, the same as every other VAR cóck up.

What a shocking result this is!

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190378#Comment_121190378

I genuinely don't see how that can be someone's conclusion... it's human error within a process that clearly isn't fit for purpose. The process of communication is clearly what opened up the room for that human error.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190387#Comment_121190387

Yes, nowhere did I say you didn't, winning and beating are 2 different things. You got shown up by nine men who beat themselves with a fluke OG.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190256#Comment_121190256

Haha the sly digs are hilarious. As I said earlier, we’re in a false position. We’ve gotten every break going this year and don’t have the squad depth to cope with injuries in a couple of positions. I expect we’ll finish 4th to 8th and you’ll finish ahead of us.

I’ve also said that Liverpool with 9 men were exceptional on Saturday and most teams would have struggled to break them down. The way they defended their box, the effort that they put in and the way they managed the game was very impressive. They deserved more and were very unfortunate on every level.

We got out of jail and we know it. Absolutely no argument, much less being wound up, there. But continue with the projection.

joeguevara

I think we need to get some perspective.

Liverpool had a perfectly good goal disallowed because of a mistake by the officials.

Hands up anyone who has seen their team denied a perfectly good goal because of a mistake by the officials. Yes, me too.

McFly85

It’s honestly pathetic that we have the actual audio to discuss and people would still prefer to angle it as a pop at Liverpool and Liverpool fans.

The audio did show the lack of structure around VAR calls which is the obvious area of improvement - 4 years in and that level of communication is pretty poor. If they could improve the structure of the conversation and the process once a mistake happens it’ll go a long way to resolving the issues.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190256#Comment_121190256

Hate to break it to you, we did win 2-1.

y0ssar1an22

is there any point when the ref relays to VAR that the on field decision was offside? cos thats where the **** up happens.

listening again, it seems the VAR operator never told them the on field decision was offside.

VAR operator: Wait, wait, wait, wait. The on-field decision was offside.

why didnt he tell them this before the decision?

Infoseeker1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190378#Comment_121190378

I never thought it was anything other than human error but it is interesting to see how the operate. Time to move onto the next match.

At least they will have to document what the new protocol is; VAR to tell referee if it is a Goal or it is not a Goal:)

[Deleted User]

These VAR lads might pay more attention from now on.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190250#Comment_121190250

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190217#Comment_121190217

By the time anyone realised the mistake, operator included, the game had already restarted. The operator does not appear to be aware that the decision can't be changed after the game has restarted.

It's a mistake. It's a bad one. But it's clearly just human error and nothing more.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190360#Comment_121190360

That's the problem though - this is apparently the way all such communication takes place. The actual nature of their conversation is not an outlier or error. Only the outcome is the error. This casual over-confidence of people talking over each other, without any clear protocols for specific descriptive language to be used so everyone knows exactly what is taking place.

Dion Fanning was talking yesterday about how every VAR conversation he's heard the recordings of sounded like a circus going on in the background, and it seems this one is no different. This is just the way they do things, and have continued doing things after each of their previous 14 apologies. I've no doubt that without being forced into public embarrassment, they'd have just carried on, same as they carried on after the rest. (and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they actually don't improve that communication process much either - it feels like this over-confident self-important machismo permeates every aspect of English officiating)

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190351#Comment_121190351

Difficult to take? What are you talking about? Passive aggressive now. Jeez. I think you're over completely thinking it. Conspiracy it ain't.

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190345#Comment_121190345

Oh absolutely, it was hilariously bad but even if Liverpool hadn't made such a huge issue of it no doubt it would be looked at by PGMOL to avoid recurrence going forward.

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190329#Comment_121190329

Pardon me?

What oneupmanship?

My post was directly related to the pages and pages of tin foil hat stuff that's been posted on this forum over the last few days. I know it must be difficult to take that it's not actually a conspiracy but that's the way she goes.🤷‍♂️

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190345#Comment_121190345

Yeah. Such a cop out to just say human error.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190317#Comment_121190317

But also the laying bear of an obvious flaw in the way they communicate that could easily be improved. Like, the way the process unfolded, it's a wonder there aren't more errors. So it's human error, as a result of a nonsensical process.

The request for investigation and audio was to see if there were failings in the process, and if those failings could be addressed. The answer to both is a pretty clear yes.

castletownman

Insane audio, monumental screw up really.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190317#Comment_121190317

Well done you.

What's with the the upmanship. Feel better?

There's a decent debate going on. But whatever takes your mind of things I guess.

Anyway, back to VAR

[Deleted User]

When you read the full transcript it's doesn't look good for both VAR officials.

The replay operator did their job well.

El Gato De Negocios

So no conspiracy.

No match fixing.

No middle Eastern malfeasance.

Just a cock up in communication due to human error.

Precisely what was said by PGMOL from the get go.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190154#Comment_121190154

As has been said many times now, this was the first example of this type of incident where VAR has given a go ahead to award a goal, but the referee and scoreline did not award the goal.

The sheer incompetence of the speech out of them. They totally string each other up with contradictory language, within the same sentence.