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I didn't realise that there was so much money flowing through the Trust. In around €50m in 2022 alone.
Threadbans
Boggles
AndrewJRenko
They shouldn't. Let Revenue petition the courts to wind them up, government seize the assets.
Thornton Hall
Why would Revenue petition to wind them up? That would be dangerously stupid.
They are meeting their tax obligations set out by revenue.
The inherent problem with state funding is it becomes a bit like Brewster's Millions. In order to qualify for the same funding the following year, or even better more, then you have to blow the lot before the year is out. In essence it becomes the opposite of what a company should be trying to achieve, operating at a loss=good, operating at a profit=bad.
If there was no state funding you can guarantee these companies would be vastly more efficient.
Not a chance of that happening, anyway Revenue have warehoused the debt. It is not clear how the debt came about. Did they claim Covid employer relief (EWSS and TWSS) when not entitled to?
These are the 2020 Financial Statements
Income went from €46.7m in 2019 to €56.4m in 2020, an increase of over 20%.
Under the Revenue rules for warehousing your tax payments, you must have expected your 2020 income to be 25% less than your 2019 income. There are serious questions to be asked therefore as to how PMVT were allowed avail of this warehousing.
No. They warehoused their paye tax liability as did 10s of 1000s of businesses.
As part of exiting the warehousing process they engaged with Revenue in a payment plan. Revenue hardly expected or asked for a cliff edge repayment date. The deadline for repayments have been pushed out again to the middle of next year.
There is no problem with Revenue at the moment.
As Blanch pointed out, they didn't meet the criteria to warehouse their PAYE liability. Revenue could rightly call the debt tomorrow, and they won't be able to pay.
€44m spent in 2020, up from €38m in 2019. Wait til some journalists start picking apart where the money went, guarantee there will be some questionable expenses in there.
I imagine Revenue would know better, no?
As far as I recall you didn't have to provide anything to Revenue at the time that proved your reduction in income, you just claimed the warehousing. Like anything with Revenue, it can be reviewed after the fact.
Blanch put up the Revenue rules and also the year on year income , so its fairly obvious PMVT were in breach of this. That would have required sign off at a senior level, probably the CFO. And now there are serious financial issues in the organisation.
I wonder if this CFO knows what his salary is.
They publish their audited accounts online. Revenue have engaged with them since last year and structured a repayment schedule.
What you are suggesting is the CFO committed fraud.
Good luck with that.
From memory companies who received state funding were not allowed to claim EWSS or TWSS. So they did not qualify and certainly did not qualify with a 10 million increase in income.
I'm saying it doesn't look like they met the required criteria, and questions should be asked of the CFO as to why they claimed debt warehousing when their income increased.
There were no controls in place during the early days, it was self assessed.
To claim TWSS/EWSS required digitally signed declarations via ROS. No difference to from what the Garlic Man did when he declaring garlic shipments were apples.
Care to point us in the direction of the 2022 accounts, which, conveniently enough, are not online at a time when questions are being asked?
With a 31 December year end they might not yet be filed with the Companies Registration Office for 2022.
Page 25 shows staff costs of 32 million, and other staff costs of approx 1.2 million under other categories. Income/donations are approx 51 million.
So about 60% goes on staff.
Link to where they availed of that scheme please?
They aren't on the list to be fair https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/twss/list-of-employers/index.aspx
However the question remains, what were they doing availing of debt warehousing when their income rose during 2020 from the prior year. They also had cash in the bank of just short of €6m at the end of 2020, so they weren't exactly struggling.
Now they are availing of a phased payment arrangement with Revenue which carries an interest rate of either 8% or 10% depending on which tax(es) are being repaid in this manner. That is a complete waste of money which could have been avoided, but sure its only public money and the government will bail them out if they need.
An appearance in front of the Public Accounts Committee should be the minimum here. And maybe the Comptroller and Auditor General sent in to look at the books.
I have no doubt this will be RTE2.0, I can't imagine they threw money away on flip flops but you can be certain that there will be examples discovered of public money that was not spent wisely.
I have just checked the TWSS and EWSS lists and they don't appear. So either they 'reversed out' before the lists were published or there is another reason they managed to run up a PAYE bill.
They were up until this news broke.
So you just accused someone of criminal fraud based on a figment of your imagination?
They warehoused their PAYE liability, it has already been discussed and linked to on the thread.
However the question remains, what were they doing availing of debt warehousing when their income rose during 2020 from the prior year.
Does it?
Or would revenue be the authority on this?
It has already been pointed out several times that debt warehousing was for companies and businesses that suffered a reduction in income.
This was not the case for Peter McVerry Trust.
It is self assessed and declared to Revenue, there were no checks put in at the time of these claims.
Are you Peter McVerry or do you work for the organisation?
They availed of the warehousing scheme for 3 years with engagement from Revenue.
If you have evidence that Revenue turned a blind eye to fraud by all means post it up.
I'd be careful though, accusing companies or individuals of criminal fraud may not be wisest thing to do.
Yes me and my wife are Peter.
Do you find that anyone that disagrees with your opinion must be a vested interest?
That would be quite a paranoid stance.
The ran up a PAYE liability with millions in the bank. It did not just happen! I know of company who had a full on Revenue raid because they changed their employer number and stopped paying PAYE for the old number for a few months.
So you know of a company that engaged in tax avoidance and were raided by Revenue?
How is that relevant?
I worked in a homeless charity during covid-not PMVT! If anything our income went up during that time. At least from what I saw, and I was at a very junior level. The public were exceptionally generous in their donations.
The charity I worked for at the time is on the list.
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