Would we have the clean energy to charge all electric cars - Not a hope
Do we have enough energy if we include "dirty" energy in that mix? - Yes
Do we need to continue using fossil fuels for the next decade - No. It should be much faster than that. The 3GW of offshore wind that we all heard about in July is due to come on stream before 2030 so less than 7 years away to use one example provided the political will sticks around
The slightly more complex answer is no
But
It's important to understand how carbon intensive the grid is at various times. It's at it's most carbon intensive in the evening when electricity demand is highest and lots of fossil fuels are being used
Conversely, it's at it's lowest carbon intensity during the night when everyone is asleep. Typically this also means electricity is much cheaper and most EV charging is done during that time
Basically, the renewable generators get to provide generation first and the fossils pick up any shortfall
So what would happen to the grid if we suddenly switched over to EVs?
Well assuming all 2.5 million (approximately) cars in Ireland charged at midnight at 7kW it would add 17.5GW of demand to the grid
Maximum historical demand was 7GW, so that would definitely be a problem
Of course that's probably not going to happen, for one thing not every car charges every night, and it's probable there could be rotating charging times by area to stabilise the grid
However in the short term if would result in significant additional demand at night which would require the use of fossil generators
On the plus side, the amount of renewables in the grid would be a lot bigger than zero. Looking at the Eirgrid dashboard, the amount of wind generation at night is often 2-3MW (Storm Agnes is generating a whopping 5MW of wind energy at the moment)
So it could be 30-40% of the energy to charge all the cars in Ireland is coming from renewables, which is way better than the 0% achieved by petrol or diesel cars
Simple answer is No.
The answer is a resounding no. It's actually frightening how far we are from that.
If we ceased using oil today. Would we have enough clean energy to charge/manufacture all electric vehicles and keep the lights on in Ireland? Or do we need to continue using fossil fuels for the next decade or so to power all those EV’s, households and workplaces etc etc
Just to be clear the reference I made to the french model has been highly touted in the media. I wasn't trying to say you made the claim
I really hate the "EVs create carbon when manufactured" argument, but in this case they do lock up a lot more emissions in the production phase than a bike or a pair of decent runners
I hate that argument too, makes it seem that the carbon emitted in EV production outweighs the total emissions of an ICE, which frankly is a ridiculous argument. Probably made up by the oil producing companies
Agree but the problem is those established taxes/duties can't be successfully transferred to EVs so what to do to continue to milk the future greener private motorist
It depends if the tax is applied as VRT (like the NOx) or as yearly motor tax.
If latter our "fat" Model 3 LR will be hit by an extra 130 quid a year as it's apparently 128 kg over the suggested 1800 kg weight limit.
I think a function of weight and size is best, punish big SUVs that take up too much road space and encourage smaller vehicles
Unless you're referring to a bad bout of flatulence while walking I think you're probably incorrect on that one
I never said anything about following French model.
In this thread and others I'm blue in the face saying we already have fuel taxes and duties which aligns with the User Pays principle and more taxes on top of taxes targeting motorists are a disgrace.
Walking and cycling produces more emissions than driving an EV that is purely charged on PV (given that the EV and solar install are already made)
We have a km or "distance travelled" based tax, it's called VAT - also we have ones called Excise and Carbon taxes for ICE vehicles
The more you travel the more tax you pay
In the UK, EVs pay nothing on road tax and it isn't a whole lot for other cars. Why not follow their model instead of the French model?
Your legs?
As someone who has worked in the transportation industry Air/Road for over 25 years, The majority of trucks on the road would not even gross the actual weight they can pull.
Take the supermarkets for instance Dunnes clothing a full artic would hold 26 pallets, And even gross near what it can carry.
The same would apply to FMCG delivery's to all of the supermarkets, Artic trucks are the most economically affective and newer trucks have better emissions and trucks are tested annually regardless of year of truck.
There is nothing in anyone's house/apartment that at one time hasn't been on the back of a truck, Just imagine no trucks in Ireland moved for 48hrs.
The country would come to a stand still hospitals/Ambulance bases airports supermarkets petrol stations buses trains pubs/restaurants hotels &schools.
As for the new tax mentioned its just a money grab and I've being saying it for years. That the 6 billion in revenue they get from petroleum products will be lost.
They want congestion charges and distance charges brought in even if we are all driving EV. The ERSI even suggested making it impossible to drive into the city centers,Looks like they started on it with Dublin fast changing lights making you drive around in circles before getting to you're destination.
Sounds unnecessarily complicated.
Yeah and the mileage they've travelled gets recorded every 2 years. Everyone has a fair idea of the distance they cover every month, so fairly easy to pay set monthly road tax based on that, then when actual distance is recorded on NCT the difference can be paid either way - over pay monthly get money back, underpay monthly get a bill in the post.
Plenty of cars on the road have not yet had an NCT. And if under 10 years old they only get one every 2 years.
Think it is only fair that heavier cars are taxed more, they do more damage/wear and tear on the infrastructure; but it also should be based on mileage.
Dunno how easy it is to 'clock' cars now? but if not easy, couldn't mileage recorded @ NCT be used as basis for part of the road tax?
Or the unimaginable quantities of shipping fuel that will be burned moving vast amounts of Brazilian beef to Europe. Directly at the expense of thier rainforest and meat quality for the European consumer.
I don't know if it's sheer incompetence and lack of planning skills or a genuine conspiracy of business using the environmental movement for their own gain.
Amazimg how commercial vehicle weight/emissions has feck all climate change impact...rhose heinous private motorists
Climate advocates being used as useful idiots by Revenue, instead of the German car industry last time.
Just like CO2 emissions a weight based tax doesn't take into account whether the car is driven 5,000 km or 50,000 km per year.
Many of these company cars are now SUVs. It will be interesting to see how they define an SUV. You could nearly fit a Yaris cross (SUV) into the boot of the upcoming Kia EV9 or the current BMW X7. More populist claptrap to justify higher taxation under the guise of climate change action.
what im getting from the last 2 pages of this thread is that i need to get rid of my 'fat' etron before im bankrupted 😁
What a pity that some of these so called experts & some of our politicians couldn't be taxed based on weight 😏
It's very easy to suggest something that won't affect themselves.
To be completely fair to your last point I think Brian Leddin cycles and takes the bus/train everywhere
I think this is more a case of EVs not being taxed as heavily as ICEs and the exchequer losing out as a result. Sneaky way of making sure our heavier cars pay more
More fixation with SUV’s. I don’t get it.
All this from people in offices with company cars and drivers to ferry them around.
Just a heads up that the drum is being once again beaten to bring in weight-based taxation.
Going totally off topic now, the famous canal houses in Amsterdam are due to the city historically taxing the width of the house that faced onto the street, as well as a window tax which made it cheaper to have smaller windows
Back on topic, I like the power to weight ratio, but again could be subject to abuse by manufacturers offering an aftermarket upgrade to the motor power. Probably not as likely as some other exploits but it's still there
I think weight scaled for the number of passenger seats would be another good option. It favours smaller lighter cars which are generally more efficient, but at the same time something like a people carrier or an 8 seater van isn't going to be penalised because it's heavier. The ones worst off will be the big heavy 5 seater SUVs which is probably how it should be
To give some worked examples:
Dacia Spiring EV, 970kg kerb weight, 4 seats, weight per seat = 242.5kg
Citroen E Spacetourer, 1969kg kerb weight, 7 seats, weight per seat = 281.3kg
Audi Q8 E-tron (the big one), 2585kg kerb weight, 5 seats, weight per seat = 517kg
So the smallest and lightest car is cheapest to tax.
The bigger 7 seater costs more but not much more (I don't think anyone is going to buy a people carrier for style or tax avoidance).
The big heavy SUV costs the most because it's the least efficient per person moved around
Somewhat extreme examples I'll admit, the Spring is a far cry from the E-tron, but I think it illustrates the point
Only heard about this light: window / tax recently. Heard of a old locally place that knocked down the second storey as they couldn’t afford the window tax. For anyone who’s interested here’s a read. Apologies if slightly off topic but just shows they’d tax anything.
https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/window-tax-hats-taxing-ireland-history
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