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Not happy with new Quartz worktop 😢

zipee

Talk me in off a ledge here. My worktops arrived today. This is my one go at my dream kitchen. I LOVE the shape of it but it’s just not what I picked or expected 😢

I picked a worktop with little or no veins as I don’t like them. I know stone can differ but the sample is BS!!

photos attached of sample and actual. I know first world problems here. I am trying to like it but really sample is like false advertising!

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easygoing39

The sample does'nt look like the whole slab,however I like the way it look's in you're kitchen now,the dark veins look very natural.Also the design of the layout of the kitchen looks fantastic.I'd keep the counter tops.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121123617#Comment_121123617

a minimum of 300mm from edge of draining board to nearest edge of socket.

10-10-20

I'm with @Mellor on this. I can't see the SCC making a judgement on the basis of the sample alone as the indications from websites where photographic samples are shown illustrate that Ashford Grey has significant strata and variation in the colouring very similar to what the customer's photos show. On that basis I would suggest that while I agree that the sample isn't representative of the final product, that there isn't a clear-cut case here for guaranteed win at the SCC.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124863#Comment_121124863

I think that is for the SCC to decide, and again, it really depends on what representations were made to the op, such as was he/she given written instruction that the sample/end top could be v different. It’s the T&Cs on the contract that will determine if the op has a good claim.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125182#Comment_121125182

This is true and all of this would have to be very well documented and presented. The better the presentation at the SCC level, the better the chance of a pre court-date settlement anyway.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124460#Comment_121124460

Yes. SCC suggested if the op thought it was a mistake on the part of the supplier because it is very inexpensive and simpler to do. Yes there is a day in court.

Point taken about the quartz.. Ithought it came from a natural stone slab.

Surely then the OP would have more recourse then if supplied something so different to the sample?

I would have gone in to see our full slab "in the flesh" but if the company did not suggest this to the OP or make proper pictures available then that is not good on their part. Not everybody would be able to get to see the full product in the warehouse but showrooms should have accurate representation of the finished product.

Such a big ticket item for anybody.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124769#Comment_121124769

A SCC claim with no evidence, or anything to make a legal justification why they have a claim has 0% chance of succeeding, obviously. The professional report/opinion was to increase the chances from 0% to something very small. You can often bolster a claim, even if spurious so that the cost of defending is more than the cost of the goods.

The additional info needed with the claim is the contract of sale, and any mention of differences between sample and fitted top, that will indicate exactly what representations were made at time of purchase

The sample is irrelevant, it is not part of the contract. They did not purchase a that specific sample in large format. They sale will be for slabs in Ashford Grey, which appears to be exactly what was received, based on the information above.

Normally I'd be on the side of the consumer, and tell them to have a punt (They still can for the sake of a fee). But I don't want to see people inexperience get the OPs hopes up.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125713#Comment_121125713

Sorry, no, what you posted is BS.

The op obviously has evidence of a consumer issue, a photo of the sample used during the conversation when purchasing, the the photo of what was fitted, they look nothing alike. So it will come down to what is written in the contract.

Of course the sample is important, why have them at all if they do not reflect what is being ordered? By your logic, displays is shops would be irrelevant, the buyer could receive something completely different to the sample on display. That is a unique viewpoint.

Whether the op’s claim has merit, is for a court to decide. For €30, it should be all upside, with little downside other than €30.

Professional reports are not needed for SCCs, but certainly they help. The SCC is designed to make it easy for consumer to seek justice when they feel they are being mistreated by a business, Judges are capable of ruling without the need for expensive professional/expert reports.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125182#Comment_121125182

The sample has nothing to do with the sale. A random sample carries n more weight that the images on the website, less so infact. The specification is what counts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125257#Comment_121125257

Without with information that the OP was completely mislead by the supplier. It seems like the mistake was on behalf of the OP. as I said, it's an understandable for an inexperienced non-professional, but that doesn't change liability for a mistake. The order was not for a big version of the sample. That's the key that lay poster seem to be missing

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125865#Comment_121125865

Christs’s sake, it isn’t a random sample, it is what was used in the shop to represent the product being sold. I accept that the whole counter top could not be expected to look like that, but what the op received is vastly different from the sample.

I don’t know why I’m even engaging with you on this, op if they don’t help you out, for the sake of €30 open a SCC case and ignore this nonsense.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125908#Comment_121125908

This.

The order was made based on the sample, so the final product would be expected to be similar, if not exactly the same as the sample.

That's just common sense, and the SCC should, in my opinion rule in favour of the consumer in this case.

MacDanger

Isn't the SCC limited to claims of €2500? I'd say the countertop cost more than that so it's probably a moot point

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125762#Comment_121125762

How exactly is is BS? No offence, but your posts are highlighting that you don't fully understand how it works.

a photo of the sample used during the conversation when purchasing, the the photo of what was fitted, they look nothing alike. So it will come down to what is written in the contract.

The sample indicates it is for Ashford Grey. The link below is what a slab Ashford Grey looks like. You are honestly saying that looks nothing like OP's kitchen? https://www.ocallaghansfireplaces.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/ashford_grey_kitchen_fb.jpg

Of course the sample is important, why have them at all if they do not reflect what is being ordered?

Samples are so people can take a small piece of a product home with them. The images of the whole slab are the representation of what the whole slab will look like. I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.

By your logic, displays is shops would be irrelevant, the buyer could receive something completely different to the sample on display. That is a unique viewpoint.

Do you mean displays in shops? That depends what the display is on. A paint finish is homogenous it represents the a uniform finish. A natural product will vary within a range. A small piece of stone represents some of the colours in the whole slab. It means that "some of the slab" will look like the sample. Not all of the slab.

Your logic of " the buyer could receive something completely different to the sample on display" suggests you really aren't understanding how it works. If the slab installed were black with green veins, then he's have a clear and obvious claim. Because Ashford Grey, that was ordered, is not advertised as black. Pretty simple.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125908#Comment_121125908

Sample are random pieces of a whole slab. That's literally how they are made. Stone samples are quite literally random pieces.

The shop probably has a dozen samples, and between the dozen they probably looked like every piece of the slabs installed. I don't know why you are engaging on this either. If I remember correctly, you've posted before looking for design advice, not as a professional helping others.

lawred2

wouldn't be happy either

kick up a fuss - that's definitely outside the realm of understandable material variance

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125908#Comment_121125908

can't believe anyone would consider a sample of the product being sold as 'random'...

would the same apply to floor tiles? Wall tiles? wood flooring? There's always some room for material variance but seriously that must have it's limitations

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125925#Comment_121125925

If the only information was that specific sample, he would have a case. But all of the information about the selected finish indicates that its has a high degree of colour variation and looks very similar to the slabs installed. The the supplier had no images of full slabs or the like, that's critical missing info could be used make a claim. And we don't know where it came form obviously, so maybe. But it's a bit odd to assume that was the case without evidence.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125865#Comment_121125865

But every customer is a lay person/ non professional.

The expert is the supplier and shouldbe giving better guidance

Looks like at the end of the day unless the supplier decides to take a hit for the sake of good customer relations which I think is unlikely, the op will either have to try the SCC or just live with the worktop.

chooseusername

From the sale of goods act;

—————————————————

“Sale by Sample

Section 15 of the Sale of Goods Act applies to a sale by sample. The sale is by sample where there is an express or implied term that this is so. The contractual provisions should clarify whether and what there is a sale by sample. In some cases, the sample is also the description. The sale may be by sample and by description, in which case, both implied conditions apply.

There are three conditions implied.

1: that the bulk will conform with the sample in quality;
2: that the buyer will have a reasonable opportunity to compare the bulk with the sample;
3: that the goods will be free from any defect rendering them unmerchantable, that would not be apparent on reasonable examination of the sample.

The provision applies to sales to consumers and non-consumers.”

——————————————————

No2 would appear to be the only reasonable grounds here for the buyer to reject the worktop, and a Mellor pointed out pictures of the whole slab are available on the website.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125938#Comment_121125938

Yes more likely 4. 5 to 6 k.

That suggestion is because it would be very risky and expensive to take a full civil claim.

Unfortunately many people go to SCC knowing it will not get all that they are owed back but it is better than nothing.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126139#Comment_121126139

Sample are literally random pieces of a whole slab. That's been pointed out a few time, baffled that people are stuffing to grasp what that means. Wall and floor tiles sample are usually whole tiles not pieces of tiles. Wood flooring is pieces, so you get some variation. Stone (and imitation stone) is probably the more variable material.

Here is what a slab of Ashford Grey looks like, it's a few metre long. When this is cut up into 100-150mm samples, some will be very white with light vein, some will be a very dark with light specs - and a small amount will be a mix.

Typical advice is to get around 3 samples. And to view the slab (for natural stone). Viewing is less critical for recon and photos are fine as there is more consistency between slab.

@zipee it's unfortunate this wasn't made clear to you at the sale. A lot of idiots working in retail. Give it time. I think whole slabs you ended up with have far more character that the plain sample you based it on.

AmpMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121124846#Comment_121124846

incorrect

The is no measurement

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126269#Comment_121126269

Oh right, I didn't realise you could essentially make a "partial" claim in the scc - handy for when the amount is above the threshold but not far enough above to make it worth your while going to court

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126327#Comment_121126327

Fair comment. Don't know tbh and if that is correct then that avenue is out as well,

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126177#Comment_121126177

On a domestic scale the specifier is often a layperson, but not always. Some get help from professional designers, as I said earlier in the thread, this is one of the areas where that expertise is huge a benefit. On a commercial scale, it's almost always professionals handling this.

I agree that the sales person should give better guidance. But I wouldn't assume they were an expert. They could be 30 years sell stone and recon. Or they could be on the job the first week have been a Dulux rep. Ultimately they are a sakes person, and I've seen sales reps make ridiculous mistakes (on a project I have the "expert" rep has submitted the incorrect sample for sign off 4 times, where it was rejected each time".

I agree with the last line. If the OP can point to the sales rep's incompetence, the manager/owner may be willing to take a hit in good faith for the same or positive relations. I'd be incline to go that route over court. But as I said, I think the variation is character over the plain.

screamer

I’d still take it up with them. I know it’s a natural product and can have variations but that should be clear in their terms and they should have also shown you the sample with the veins so you could get a better idea if you liked it. Might save someone else being bitterly disappointed

legend99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126297#Comment_121126297

Again, apologies for the digression? But could you clarify please?

AmpMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130086#Comment_121130086

There is no rule specifying the minimum distance a Socket Outlet / Switch need to be from a sink. I.S. 554.3.4 states that a socket outlet should not be located where it is subject to dripping or splashing.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130086#Comment_121130086

Sorry the 300mm came from me. I googled it and just went back and it’s a recommendation not a rule.

Bit mad all the same that there’s no regulation though.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126280#Comment_121126280

Great, that's what a slab of Ashford grey looks like. A section of that as a sample would be an accurate representation of the product.

However, it looks absolutely nothing whatsoever like the sample that was provided to the OP when making their purchase decision. The sample is not in any way indicative of the actual product, and is 100% misleading for customers.

It is not reasonable to expect customers to know that the sample they are looking at is completely different to what they're going to get.

Sample of a horse drawing:

Final product:

"Customer should understand that a sample is just a random section of the final product and there will be variances, they're ultimately getting a drawing of a horse..."

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132913#Comment_121132913

You’re contradicting yourself. You said a section of the slab I posted would be an accurate representation. But the section OP has, which is a section from a similar larger slab, is not accurate. Which is it?

To say it the sample looks absolutely nothing whatsoever like a section of the delivered slab or the images is plainly incorrect. Surely you can see that the sample came from a pale less dense sections, and how cutting up the full slab in smaller pieces would create many similar samples? I'd have thought that was pretty clear, but see as you like visual aids here's a side by side.

Obviously different white balance and lighting conditions. But it's pretty clear 3 sections of very similar material. And obviously none look very like the overall slab.

As I've been saying this is really routine situation when dealing with selection of marble and other variable stones. I under that a first timer might not realise, but any self build situation is full of risk and lessons learned.

It is not reasonable to expect customers to know that the sample they are looking at is completely different to what they're going to get.

If they are given a tiny sample only with no other information or context, then I’d completely agree. How could they know it's from a larger slab with dark sections? But they’re no indication that’s what happened here. Suppliers include images of the full slab and installed slabs precisely to avoid that confusion. People are assuming this info was hidden for some reason. Seems less likely than the alternative.

Sample of a horse drawing:

I love that image, lol.

If you engaged an artist for simply a drawing of a horse based on that sample alone and no other context, sure you'd have a compliant. But when the artist also advertises a collection of work to illustrate their wacky style, that you were pretty foolish to not consider that how that would impact the end product.

It's like asking Picasso to paint you a picture, and being surprised that it ends up looking like a "Picasso".