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Was it a man or a woman that murdered Raonaid Murray?

In your opinion, was it a man or a woman(possibly a teenager at the time) that murdered Dublin schoolgirl Raonaid Murray in September 1999? I watched this brilliant documentary on the case, "Rainy in Glenageary" on YouTube(link below). In it, the film makers make allusions that both a man and a woman were possibly involved in Raonaid's murder. They also reference interviews given by Gardai involved in the investigation, including former garda assistant commissioner Martin Donnellan, who stated that he believed Raonaid may have been murdered by a teenage girl and that another teenage girl may have helped her to cover it up.

In your opinion, was it a man or a woman that murdered Raonaid Murray?

https://youtu.be/v2kjsm11_t4

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richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950166#Comment_120950166

True…he said that but two other retiring cops have other theories…defo she knew her killer though and he “thought he knew her” (experts say the stalker guy at club/takeaway would think that) …experts point to the language used by Raonaid in the lane way was a factor in determining she knew the killer.

if the lad in the taxi was responsible surely it’s a simple analysis of blood plus other factors, or am I totally missing something (which I admit I probably am)?

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950629#Comment_120950629

Bad choice of words from me :) I suppose I was thinking of a number of individuals who didn’t want Raonaids friends to cooperate with the documentary makers behind ‘Rainy in Glenageary’ . Of course the majority of decent people want justice.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950629#Comment_120950629

For the record this is what the documentary team said

"The second reason is that some of this crew have recently begun re-thinking the events of late 1999 and it seems they do have further information, but after their previous alleged treatment by Gardai in relation to such a traumatic event were naturally uncertain how to proceed and consented instead to internal audio recordings of their claims for our film's research."

"Yet the third and perhaps most compelling reason of all is that, following a number of Raonaid's crew bravely opening up about such issues, we have evidence strongly suggesting that others vilified them for speaking out - a large red flag to our filmmaking team."

"Following the release of RAINY IN GLENAGEARY, I will not make any further public comment on either the case or film," Jones concluded. "But I do wish to concur with the Gardai's long held belief that Raonaid Murray was killed by someone she knew and echo her family's plea for people not to shield a murderer."

Watch the film here:

AA

• writing.ie

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950641#Comment_120950641

No, you’re not missing anything. You’d think it would be that straight forward but this case has many going around in circles due to the witness sightings and suspects.

I also read two conflicting reports of the taxi suspect. One says the blood was on the hands, the other says his trousers. He had an alibi - he told the police he made a directory enquires call from his flat at around the time of the murder.

We can only speculate suspect destroyed or was helped to destroy evidence before police got to him. Suspicious activity at female suspects address leans heavily in that direction. Nothing is mentioned of bloodied clothing ever been recovered. The timeline for him being questioned by police is not clear to me and I’m not sure how long after the murder he gave the weak alibi to the police.

He was arrested in 2000 with a knife on O’Connell street and and he was at the time facing charges of sexual assault. The knife was analysed and it wasn’t the murder weapon.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950641#Comment_120950641

I’ll also add I think he did 4 years in prison for threatening to chop up a family member.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950281#Comment_120950281

Truth, but the catalyst to that was new modern forensic science and technology being able to link the guilty party to his victim ….and having sexually assaulted them, which provided the evidence. They had the evidence ie. semen.

Raonaid wasn’t sexually assaulted, none of her possessions were robbed. The murder weapon was never recovered.

the reports put the size of the knife blade at around 1.5 inches…..very small, sounds possibly a legally held Swiss army / pen knife Funny if I was going out to deliberately kill / harm someone I’d have wanted a more large and easily lethal weapon. Steak knife say.

so it’s fair to say the murder weapon won’t be recovered… it’s been done away with, likely doesn’t exist, anywhere. Could have been destroyed with ease, without fuss, without raising suspicions…. Melt it on a stove and dispose of whatever material is left…

there are no witnesses, there is no murder weapon…. Cold case review in ‘08 didn’t help to effect any arrests….

she was stabbed four times. side, chest and I think arm. So it wasn’t a robbery gone wrong, wasn’t an attempt to simply hurt or intimidate…. It was an attempted and successful murder…. Detective Bailey : “ I am convinced her assailant was known to her, was among her peers in the social circles in which she moved. “

the first 3 words…. I am convinced

that to me says that they believe they know the identity of the murderer… in addition they believe it’s someone she saw socially……. Two very definite statements……

just not enough evidence…. Strange ..

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950998#Comment_120950998

yes, stabbed around 30 times but most were weak stabs but the four you mentioned - one was fatal...twice in the side, once in the chest and either shoulder or armpit (depending on what you read) but one severed an artery and I’d only be guessing which one. She raised her arm to protect herself and knife plunged through her carrier bag. The type of knife, looks like you’re right but some articles point to a different type of knife. I’m still lost as to what type - kitchen - Swiss type ….

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950998#Comment_120950998

The thought of trying to land 30 or so knife stabs on a person and four deeper than the rest. That takes some effort. Sounds like a Swiss knife or similar, doesn’t it, if larger kitchen knife was used would you really have to land that many with the majority superficial stabs? Really strange. A frenzied attack fuelled only by rage?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930119#Comment_120930119

Where did you see the female suspect was cleared form DNA ?

Do you have source for that ?

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975827#Comment_120975827

I take it this info is accurate. Suspect was tracked to the USA by Interpol who assisted the guards. There was another female suspect who also voluntarily provided a DNA sample. She was also in the USA. The case was compromised by the Guards. One can read everything online and still come up short on what exactly was compromised and who are the suspects. It’s the anniversary today.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/115602423#Comment_115602423

“Officers were quite surprised at the amount of 'weirdos' living in and around the area at the time.”

I wonder if they were surprised with the “liaison” officer to the Murray family who was removed due to his improper conduct, and over twenty years later he’s before the courts after threatening to kill a woman while holding her hostage.

The alleged IRA figure mentioned I presume (just Google or read books and his name pops up) is Owen Coogan aka “jug head” - hard to say though as he’s a Belfast man and close friend of Adams…why settle southside Dublin….

richiestokes_79_79

Stabbed by a jealous girl….but eyewitness has Raonaid arguing with a male….was the female waiting in the laneway half way up by the tree for Raonaid and accomplice to arrive…and was the first to punch Raonaid (chipped front tooth reported) followed by the male stabbing her or female took knife and stabbed her? Neighbours heard voices and a scream but nothing else…in shock and unable to scream for help…seems odd no other sounds attracted attention of neighbours…fine help they were but even today you get a sense of people wanting to mind their own business…it’s a very quiet area…dark haired girl seen in area…no doubt made their escape via The Metals laneway…perfect cover…creepy place even today… years later CCTV cameras at a property gate close to entrance of that laneway…and sorry state of cameras noted…we can only surmise and all this speculation simply draws our attention away from suspect who danced with Raonaid and hung out with her but never came forward…

richiestokes_79_79

…I don’t buy the “she’s untouchable because she’s related to the bloke who nearly killed Thatcher” scenario…or how far can one go with this narrative…straight to the top of the Justice Department? I wish the police would say it’s bollox…move on…but Raonaids friends are on record as saying she’s definitely number one suspect. They had a “moment of clarity” later in life as mature people. So…her, her female friend and her boyfriend at the time (same guy who threatened to chop up a woman) are as of now in the clear. Why? Where did the police balls it up?

richiestokes_79_79

one day it’ll be solved and people will be arrested…I’m 100% sure of that…the bad incompetent apples of DL division have passed away or retired, and a new generation will get the break needed. No doubt about it. The evil people involved in this will pay dearly.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757490#Comment_119757490

He’s old enough now…retired…led the England Department…hugely influential though…picking on him would be a big mistake for a number of reasons…mostly political. Not someone to be frightened of…but I’m sure he has a better hand to play if ever pushed by the authorities or department of justice…

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757490#Comment_119757490

He’s old enough now…retired…led the England Department…hugely influential though…picking on him would be a big mistake for a number of reasons…mostly political. Not someone to be frightened of…but I’m sure he has a better hand to play if ever pushed by the authorities or department of justice…

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386905#Comment_119386905

They didn’t arrange anything lol …

richiestokes_79_79

Before anyone asks …yeah I’m talking to myself …because this useless country didn’t even bother to acknowledge the anniversary….

stone cold killers got away with it…

Whoever it was has got away with it so far, but karma will get them in the end; and I hope the police do, too.

Justice is important.

Mantis Toboggan

Given how long it took them to charge Noel Long I don't think we'll be seeing anything here anytime soon.

If you think Ireland is so useless, take a real, sensible, long hard look at other jurisdictions. Are the neighbours always better off?

If you think so, move there. If not, stop whinging.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070407#Comment_121070407

24 years , it is hard to believe that it has been that long, sh.e would be 41 now but it forever that 17 year old

The leaving cert just over and so many opportunities.

In around 2009 they took DNA samples from all her female friends, I think that was to try rule people out.

I never saw the article about the blood stained knife before, did anything come of it?

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107371#Comment_121107371

As far as I know the knife discovered on the roof of a rundown property yielded no clues/evidence. Too long up there, apparently ten years.

The cops were overwhelmed with info and struggled to get a grip on it. Throw in two competing officers who managed to unwittingly destabilise the investigation and it’s no wonder it hasn’t been solved.

Try reading everything online and you’ll come to the same conclusion- going around in circles. Even now I’m beginning to doubt the female/male suspect theories because nothing sticks. That theory might well prove to be the perfect foil that has enabled the real killer to elude authorities.

The guy in the takeaway and nightclub with Raonaid and described by her friends to the cops, but no name. He never came forward. Were they all so pissed that no more info could come out of those two encounters? So, who is that person? And remember, Raonaid was followed on another night and sought refuge in a friends apartment.

One thing I’m pretty sure of - if you’re going to commit murder in “the cut” laneway- the most logical escape route is down the opposite lane at - Lords way- (part of the metals route) and across the rail line bridge exiting to a quiet neighbourhood.

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121119820#Comment_121119820

It’s hard to believe the photo of suspect hasn’t generated a name and the description of him is good…

well spoken (posh, even)

piercing blue eyes

sandy coloured hair

wore glasses but only used them to study menu in Abracadabra

wore cream combat type trousers -most lads at that time wore green/black, as I did, and I’d considered that item of clothing as a factor of his class type. Sounds ridiculous but from experience only a certain type wore them.

was this the individual stalking Raonaid and was he the killer. Time will tell.

richiestokes_79_79

Hear me out - so this suspect, who never came forward, danced with Raonaid in july of that summer in the nightclub, and had something to eat with her, has NEVER been properly identified by her friends. His friends were also there. This article…

The first sighting is the most detailed as it was supplied by friends of Raonaid who spent considerable time in his company. The young man met Raonaid Murray on Thursday, July 29, 1999, at the Paparazzi Nightclub on Marine Road, Dun Laoghaire. He was in the company of a group of male friends. He danced with Raonaid, later joining her and her friends at Abrakebabra on Georges St, Dun Laoghaire.

The young man sat and chatted with Raonaid and her friends for a lengthy period. He is described as between 5'8'' to 5'10'' tall, with short, light sandy hair and he is aged between 18 and 22. He is of average build with piercing sky-blue eyes. He had a sallow complexion and clear skin. He spoke with a ``polished'' middle-class accent and wore a loop earring at the top of his left ear.

He wore thin-rimmed glasses on the top of his head, but only used them to look at the menu. He was dressed in a pair of trendy cream combat trousers and a cream T-shirt. Raonaid's friends were not formally introduced, but they felt he was a student. During their conversation, he displayed a keen interest in music and spoke in detail about guitars, singling out a Fender sunburst guitar for particular mention.

During his stay in the restaurant, some of his friends were outside. He then left with Raonaid. Her friends believed that he lived locally. So far, gardaí have been unable to identify this man or his friends.

The next sighting was of a young man of similar build and height, wearing light coloured combat trousers and a beige or brown round-necked jumper or sweat shirt. He had sandy, tossed, unkempt hair and was with Raonaid at the junction of Corrig Avenue and Corrig Rd at 11.53pm on September 4. The witness had the distinct impression that the young man was hassling the girl. The man seemed agitated and the girl seemed to be trying to get rid of him.

At 12.02am Raonaid was seen crossing Lower Glenageary Rd at the traffic lights at the junction with Corrig Rd. She was alone. Eight minutes later, she was brutally attacked with a kitchen knife and left to die in the Gaps, a walkway between Silchester Rd and Silchester Crescent.

Superintendent Martin Donnellan told the Sunday Independent that investigators needed to urgently identify the man at the Paparazzi Nightclub.

im amazed none of this helped… clearly the guy is recognisable to someone….

richiestokes_79_79

And if one delves deeper…this suspect pops up as one who was protected…by whom? I don’t know… plausible …who knows …I know one thing …nothing surprises me…

richiestokes_79_79

Who is this ?

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120200#Comment_121120200

Loop Earring

richiestokes_79_79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121120204#Comment_121120204

Likes guitars