Thrash that out more why are u in dero now if going on what you’ve quoted there
I'm in derogation. I keep all calves on farm to finish at 24-30 months. Fresian bullocks and whitehead. I keep all heifers on farm. I could send these to contract rearer. I could get rid of the beef enterprise and sell all calves at 4 weeks old Instead of keeping to 24 months. That would reduce my nitrogen below the limit and I could add on more cows with both of those options been taken.
You're welcome here if you have a more open conversation and tone down the anger a bit. People are just going to be pissed off with you. Sure we're all just trying to manage our own bit at the end of the day.
Because there can be 2 generations on farms
as another poster said you must have more than 100 cows if you call yourself a large dairy farmer or is it carpet farming you’re at ?
👍👍I interpreted it that you’d continue to rest all calves and increase cow nos and still stay out of dero ….question tho financially has it and dose it make sense to keep all those beef calves rather than selling them at 3/4 weeks and milk more cows and have simpler more profitable farm ….I used keep calves …great way of keeping money together but when u sit down and do figures there’s nothing out of them
Now ur making sense taught u were losing the plot
155 cows no hired labour just me and the woman
Ok lad
How many cows u milk
How many acres owned
How many rented leased
Not a dairy farmer, I have sucklers & dairy calf to beef. The issues I can see for dairy farmers are.
Land currently used by non dairy farmers will be rented by dairy farmers (just to stand still really) at circa €500 / acre that's a big additional expense on some dairy farms.
This will reduce the demand for calves. Dairy farmers who once reared calf to beef will now be selling these calves increases supply. To get rid of calves dairy farmers may have to pay farmers to take their calves.
Teagasc have been advising farmers in Cavan & Monaghan to farm that same as lads in the Golden Vale, that's just not sustainable.
I am hearing stories of farmers in Cavan & Monaghan walking away from leases as they can't afford them, in 1 case the Garda were even involved.
A sales rep (good lads to carry bad stories) was telling me a local dairy hero here told him "paying this months meal bill wasn't in his budget". If this is happening at the minute after a few great years what will happen if current milk prices continue for then 3-5 years?
That's 77 or 8 cows each so. Fairly achievable between two people.
756
897 ha (acres is so 80's)
92 ha
That’s a nice gig
we’ve a few more, parents still involved, wife has a good job and paying for every acre plus some new infrastructure. For there to be a future here for the next generation (if they want it ) my herd has to stay at the size it’s at.
its worked very well for us uptil now but now it’s just been made a whole lot harder to do it
everyone has there reasons for leasing land and being in derogation. You shouldn’t be so blunt in your understanding as to why
I actually do most of the heavy work the wife does all paper work calves but its surprising how much time those two things take if she left me id be finished but i doubt she ever will
It's not as profitable as the dairy. Haven't done the figures in detail but clear a few hundred on each. Stay with it as its less labour intensive than more cows. Tbh have no interest in milking anymore than we currently are for lifestyle reasons.
You own over 2000 acres man you must be one of the biggest land owners in the country tought i was big
With respect ….u should run figures …I did and it’s some eye opener but there’s isn’t anything like that out of them ….I transfer calf at 2 weeks account for all milk ,meal hay/straw vetinary labour etc …there’s less work but financially returns aren’t there if even some of them are replaced with dairy ainmals …..you say you’ve no interest in more cows which is fair enough but returns from beef just ain’t there
Spring calving??, What kinda % is the MP. The hitch eye must be wore off the zero grazer with that much ground
Doubt it
I personally know some guys milking over 1000 cows they dont own near the land you own where in the country do u farm
Irresponsible from Teagasc to issue blanket advice based on their own research/demo farms which have free-draining soil, perfect infrastructure, and an endless supply of labour.
Nitrates are nitrates, whether they come from the back end of a cow or they come from a fertiliser bag (E Burgess).
A proposal was put forward in the Water Quality committee (instigated by the minister to put forward ideas for lobbing to hold 250), that the derogation limit move to that required by the EU, but that the limit be made up of the combination of chemical and organic, meaning a farmer could choose to stay at 250 organic nut drop chemical to (say) 190...
I believe the minister "got to" the commissioner before this suggestion could get legs.
We now have Ryan with the narrative that derogation farmers can make up their income loss by supplying AD plants with their excess grass.
They will only have excess if they continue with the higher chemical applications.
You can see why the resistance to dropping the chemical application.
He's bullshitting you. Rents out most of his place
One thing you should add on to the figures (and maybe you did) is the amount of money you lose on selling the calves young.
Are we calling that big now?
The moving of dero limits from 250 to 220 and the possible lower in the future will have knock on effects for more than the dairy industry. It will affect the beef and tillage trades hugely on more than just the land front.
Coming at it from the beef farmer side of the house the 3 major knock ons will be access to rented ground, which has be debated into a different stratosphere here and I'm not leaving terra ferme. Followed by potential effects to feedlots and finally extra numbers to the weekly kill for the next few months
I don't have figures, but I would suspect a large number of the contracted feeders would be in dero and close to the limits with the numbers of stock the are turning over, relying on imported feed and exporting of slurry. A pinch to these might be welcome to the beef trade, it will have knock on effects to the farmers who rely on the sale of forward stores through the mart,by reducing the numbers these feedlots can buy and finish.
The next is the beef trade for the coming months. The big question is how many are going to cull to get to 220 and if so how. Is the trade going to be presented with a large number of cows out of the parlour pre drying off, or will dairy farmers feed these cull until January. A controlled fashion will be needed. This will be an issue, as I feel most farmers won't be able to get access to enough ground in a limited supply land rental market thus leading to an offload for cows to reach the 220
Calf and incalf heifer sales have the potential to collapse. It's probably happening as we speak with in calf heifers. The calf issue will be interesting in the spring. A number of dairy farmers who may have a sideline of beef enterprise, be calf to beef, calf to store or calf to weanling, will pull the plug on this and offload calves as soon or drop down a peg on that ladder, so as to keep cow numbers up. What will this do in a market that is already flooded from late February to April. Surely the Dept could look to a simple solution on not counting the Nitrates of all animals under 12 weeks. This could help solve some issues.
On the tillage side, and the talk of Charlie's Chequebook coming out to increase tillage area this will further add to the land rental madness. Couple this with the changes of the past few years on the exports of slurry namely the doubling of volume and diesel costs, this makes it even harder
MOD: Anyone not happy with daiymann 5's posts would do well to note BP and Mooooo's advice.
Hint:
If you chose to engage with him, that was your choice, as were the consequences.
If you'd prefer not to see his posts, try the "Ignore" function. (I can't vouch for how effective it is.) Tap on the appropriate avatar and then the blue bar with the white head and shoulders icon, to bring up the option.
If the situation continues i.e. the winding up and generalised insults, I might do something tomorrow, but it's great entertainment and it would be a pity to silence such a great method actor.
Think we can all agree Ryan is an ass!!
Minister for artificial fertiliser.
When all will be said and done this Minister will be seen as the minister for merchants not farmers.
That was a great proposal btw and ye knew and had an idea how it could be achieved.
More abuse and use of farmers.
Possibly could be framed better in the media then the minister won't allow farmers to reduce artificial fertiliser usage.
Look hes doing his best the way politican work is the look after the majority where votes will come from if they lose derogation farmers to another party there no great loss cus number is small.Look at the great acres scheme 45000 happy farmers being paid to do sfa there sure votes next election
