@Siamsa Sessions unless you are going into cows do not worry about feedface. Dry silage bales solves any issue with feed face. Anyway depending on shed design you can feed at the back. 96' is approximately 6 bays long. That shed sounds like it will exceed TAMS costings
Go 8' minimum deep and 9' if you can afford it. Get you grant application specifications right from the start. I remember getting 16'6'' slats from Creagh conc in NI for one of my tanks they were tractor rated to UK specifications but not to Irish Spec's. They were a fabulous choice at the time and I am still delighted with them. Just a little trick when putting concrete around slats get 4-6'' strip's of 3 or 4'' Kingspan ( this will depend on the slope and height of your slats ( you want it 1'' outside your slats and 3'' below the top of them). If the slats ever have to be replaced it's makes it real easy for a road saw to cut to that depth. Leave at least 2-3'' of tow room at front and back of pens slope it and cattle will push dung back down into the tank
Remember face the open side of your shed North East ideally, if not North and finally East as the last option. While the dungstead may seem the cheapest option an extra half day digging on a track machine might be better value to get placing of tank right. However you probably have to follow present planning choices.
Consider going 10' deep if it's only for a beef systems and 5 bays, put a sloped concrete floor behind 1-2 pens. You can put a lot of runners or light stores in such a set up. If you can face the shed North you can have an Eastern feed face opening for more room to that pen or feed I side I'm the shed if needed.
The stone that comes out can be used to backfill around tank, it can be used under silage slabs or under the floor of sheds. I know it's an extra cost but you will always used that stone.
If going for cows somebody else advise
What is wrong with using Cydectin in June? How did he get to have losses?
@Siamsa Sessions another small thing but is really annoying me about my shed... get slats with big enough agitation points, mine are very small, a right pain for the contractor to get the agitator into the tank.
I believe there are different sizes, I never thought to even ask.
Using it too early can stop calves from developing their own resistance. White dose first works better that way imo
Thanks again for the insights lads.
There’s a few ifs, buts, and maybes but the situation with me and cows is this:
* I’m pricing a tank at the moment. Grant spec. Slats and shed on top would come later. The tank is needed whether I go milking or start to keep more cattle over winter. If the tank was in place, with security fencing or whatever fencing is needed around it, then I could start milking.
* I’ve a 2nd hand parlour lined up and I’d be putting it into the existing shed (in the pic). Collection yard is already in place. Roadways, paddocks, water troughs, all in place too from my father’s time. Bit of tidying up (ongoing) needed but the layout is there.
* The slurry finances have to add up thou. If the tank is too expensive for the no. of cows I could milk (60-ish on 75 acres), then milking is off the table. I’ll put in a smaller tank and build up cattle numbers slowly instead.
* If the finances add up and I go milking, I’d milk 30 in 2025 on a part-time basis. When 45 acres of leased land reverts to me in 2026, I’d go to 45-50 and then 55-60 in 2027.
* By that stage I’ll either be getting on grand or I’ll hate cows. If I hate them, I’ll sell them, ripe out the parlour, and go back to cattle again. The slats can still go on the tank but it’d be a different type of shed on top.
That’s the loose plan. There’s a dozen little things I’m trying to do to better position myself. Experience last week milking for someone was 1 thing. Getting into Bord Bia yesterday was another. Reseeding a few acres every year. Regular contact with the accountant is ongoing. Etc.
And genuinely - reading this thread is another thing that I think is a great help. So thanks again.
No harm to get milk lorry driver to have a look too. Had ours here this morning, he'd be the type who'd complain after about how we did things...
A bit of a day out.
Montbeliarde open day.
Yeah that’s on the to-do list. There’s plenty room to turn where the bulk tank would be going but it’s the roadway from the road into there that I’m not 100% about. It’s a proper stone/gravel roadway and won’t be used by cows but them lorrys are big wide yokes these days
110' of 14'6" tractor slatts with one manhole slat will be €12k inc vat. The 16'6" are only €1500 extra
Edit to add: 110'x9'x16'6" tank cost me 42K last year excluding digging out and slatts. Grant spec.
Have you a co-op who will buy your milk without any ridiculous condition. I heard maybe chinese whispers, that aurivo are asking new entrants to supply 25% of milk over the winter months.
The farmers journal are reporting that the derogation cut has been confirmed. No need for any more denial or wishful thinking. Will there be more cuts is the question now....
Done a 180x8x16'6 tank here in 2020 for 46k plus the vat including tractor slats fitted and delivered with 4 agitation points non grant spec job, its frightening the escalation in costs since then concrete was 67 euro plus vat for 40n at the time
There will be because every increase in N in the country is being blamed on the cow.
It's not being blamed on rising soil temperature, ground being tilled, more housing, urban/industrial development.
Even if a reduction is shown in a cow area with derogation farmers. That info is disregarded as it doesn't suit the narrative to demonise pasture based farming and the cow.
Edit to add: there's self proclaimed vegans putting the epa's case to eliminate the Irish derogation in Brussels.
That would be good 😅😅👏😅😅😅they and the other liquid manufacturers won't pay the suppliers they have
Not a hope its retained past 2025, we will all be working of 170kgs/n ha from then, tied up enough leased ground last week on a 5 year lease from next year to keep numbers at circa 130-140 going forward at 170kgs, will be interesting to see if the rental market takes off on again our lads just drop numbers
going to be a huge blow to large areas of this country ….the huge push of more cows producing less milk and subsequent poorer calf and culls is comming home to roost …traditional ..family farms going to be made unviable with this move
interesting to see where the national herd goes now ….the stupid rents lads bid land to this year won’t be viable …..if lads have to milk less cows it’ll drive intensification to produce more milk per cow
Sad that the "independent" EPA has been infiltrated by brainwashed vegans.
The dept of ag there's a few anti livestock. Teagasc tillage dept did a job to hide figures working with the epa down through the years.
We're basically in some plant based fourth day evangelist dystopian reality in this country.
Writing was on the wall a long time ago for this reduction it was no real surprise to see it come to pass. It will bring with it a whole host of problems, not many will want to keep any extra calves now bar the essential replacements, lads/ladies in the 50-100 cow bracket will be hit hardest by this.
There will be no push back against this either as you have to row in with europe to be fair, so much for all the roaring and shouting down in west cork a week or two ago.
In the 50/100 cow bracket I reckon you’ll see a lot of lads not submitting bps and selling off entitlements and farming off the grid ….something I’m strongly considering
That will just surely never be an option realistically no co op would accept your milk?
I can see where you’re coming from though if the farm is capable of carrying 100 cows through years of good management then why should it be confined to 70 cows say. Red tape is the killer.
The nitrate rules are part of the long delayed Water Directive to which all industries have to compli with, so compliance will still be in issue, BPS or not via local CC's etc.. Alot of this sh*t show could have been avoided if DAFM had properly implemented existing regs, but as highlighted in last weeks IFJ, they failed and failed badly which is why things went back to Brussels.
Absolutely nothing to stop it atm …..as long as bord bia complient coop will collect your milk …..if you’ve slurry storage ,rivers fenced yard compliant etc what can they do ……advisors etc wouldn’t like it for obvious reasons but more and more people are doing this and considering it
Co-ops will take the milk no issue and bord bia don't at the minute have any issue re nitrates/stocking rates, I have first-hand experience of the above, no bps has been submitted here the past 9 years and haven't touchwood had so much as a angry letter from the department about it
You would have to be in receipt of very small payments to justify that though it would probably however suit some farms under those circumstances. I don’t think I’d take the option of milking 20/30 more cows to forego payments.
I wouldn’t be saying that to milk more cows it would be to mantain current numbers and viability ….for lots it will be a real option
I get where you’re coming from but if you have payments worth 20k for instance you’d definitely be better off milking 80 cows and keeping them as opposed to 100 cows and no payments surely for example.
It's unfair on the lads with plenty land too but the landowners keeping the maps. It's all about the maps now.
One thing for shure the end of derogation will seriously cripple the rural economy and with it the countries economy. I was talking to a rep today who sells to co ops around the country. He said that nothing was moving. With the bad prices farmers are not spending.
In that boat here 30 acres rented for years, landowner leases maps to another party. Losing 20 acres of leased ground away from home farm next year also which will all lead to just focusing on cows and the bare replacements. Annoying having the land to cater for a beef operation alongside but regs would allow this going forward and land won’t be farmed to its potential.
