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Child Item

Car usage drops by 1% in over a decade

Beta Ray Bill

Read this article this morning.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/car-usage-drops-by-1-in-over-a-decade-1497796

In a nutshell nothing has changed in terms of Car usage.

Not cycle lanes, not public transport, not working from home etc.

We're one of the worst in the EU for Car dependency

A few little bits/point that I thought were interesting from Professor Brian Caulfield

53% of Dubs vs 80% of Non Dubs (Says rural in the article but there are other cities in the country that are not "Rural") are dependent on their cars

35% of all trips are less than 2km yet the DOT says 90% of Car drivers would "consider using walking, cycling or public transport for shorter trips" - doesn't make sense to me. they are conflicting figures.

3.5 million people are within a 15 min walk of a bus stop. - not sure if this shows that the network is/isn't there or if it just doesn't work

Regardless, it's obvious at this point that Paddy probably doesn't like the car all that much, but has to use it. we've a long way to go.

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Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994179#Comment_120994179

A 15 min walk to the bus stop to wait for the bus, or hop into the car for a 10 min drive.

People will always choose the easier option.

Why walk 40 mins to the shop and back when I can drive it in 6 mins?

patmahe

For me compared to 10 years ago I use the car far less. There are no public transport links between my house and my place of work so I have to own a car as work is 16km away, I also have an electric bike that I sometimes use to do this commute. I work remotely 60% of the time so that's a lot of commuting cut down on compared to 10 years ago.

I think things would be similar for most people, you have to own a car because public transport doesn't exist, cycling/walking to work is difficult/dangerous or you have to drop kids to school etc on the way. For most people whether you are doing 1000k or 100000k per year, you are paying your tax and your insurance and the car is outside your door, it will keep you warm dry and safe so of course you are going to use it 99% of the time. For a lot of people its a case of 'I have it so I may as well use it' and until there is a proper (not token) effort to make other forms of transport a lot more viable (and I don't mean simply banning cars from certain areas at certain times) nothing will change.

Build infrastructure like they did in Amsterdam and people will use it, but it must all be integrated, if you cycle your bike to the station, you either need to be able to bring it with you or lock it securely, same with buses. Cycle lanes and footpaths need to be fit for purpose, not painted lines on a road that most motorists ignore or have to drive in anyway because the road is so narrow.

Employers too need to make it easier for those who commute in these ways, my employer provides showers (about 1 per 500 employees) which helps me to cycle in, but I bet its not the same for a lot of people.

Someone needs to be put in charge of integrating all of this and if money needs to be borrowed to make it happen then do it, because the health benefits and reduced medical fees, improved mental health etc. will all be well worth the investment. These projects are proven to be worthwhile investments the world over so all it takes is the political will to do it.

Bottom line, you can't expect people to give up their cars if you haven't given them a real alternative to it in the first place. The lack of a decent public transport infrastructure is not something that is in the hands of the general public, so hazard a guess at where the problems lie.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994238#Comment_120994238

This is a classic example of poor design.

There should be no right turn coming from Clontarf on to the Malahide Road, then just leave that left turn signal green for longer allowing traffic backup around junction with Collins Ave. It has a better chance is dispersing there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994073#Comment_120994073

Buses are slow. And it's not because of cars, You've a big heavy vehicle with and underpowered engine (emissions) that has to stop and start very often and only has one door to load passengers (2 to offload sometimes). I used the Swords express often. It hasn't a tap on the DART, which can carry more people, load faster, accelerate quicker, etc

Buses are not the answer. If you're just going 3 or 4 stops then yeah, buses are great. But anything over 2 or 3 KM at the crow flies isn't going to perform well.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994560#Comment_120994560

That's actually a really good point. Like if I had a brand new Car that I'd paid €50k for, I wouldn't be leaving it in the driveway while I hop on a Bus to work.

Very hard to see a solution, given the way things currently are

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994560#Comment_120994560

And yet if you built the Metro years ago so many people would be using it now. Perhaps even one or two who never used it before.

Build it properly first. It will get used if you build a useful infrastructure. When its used, people will like it if you do it properly, and will actually prefer it to the car. Thats how you get car use down. You give a useful alternative, not 30 years of plans and sticks.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994759#Comment_120994759

Dont buy the 50k car and get the bus. Save the 50k

is that not an alternative?

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994773#Comment_120994773

I've been commuting all my working life via public transport... wasted years of my life.

Thanks to COVID and nothing else I can work from home.

That's Irish planning for you.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994633#Comment_120994633

Does inner city Dublin have space for cycle lanes though? Not sure I'd fancy going down the quays, Dame Street or O Connell street on a bike, tbh.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994801#Comment_120994801

Absolutely is, but the trade off is this years of your life waiting on Public transport.

What's more important to ya €50k or not spending 1000 hours sitting on public transport over 5 years (If you're busing it that is). If you make more than €25 per hour the car is a better option. (as ridiculous as that seems)

gooseman12

The same arguments always come up, "its faster for me to drive and costs less".

Until car use in cities is slower and costs more, people will not change. Less car lanes and congestion charges/tolls are the obvious solutions on both points.

Until car users are sitting in traffic for ages waiting and paying for the privilege while watching the buses/trams/cyclsts fly by as they wait, nothing will change.

For me, this is the only solution for our cities.

Getting people out of cars in rural areas will be next to impossible due to our low density rural sprawl, only changes to our planning system can resolve this and even then it would take generations.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994836#Comment_120994836

you could flip the question and ask, does inner city dublin have space for car lanes? if it does, you're basically arguing for the primacy of cars.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994875#Comment_120994875

I have two option to get to work. Now I do only have 2 days a week

Option 1 is car. Which takes about 90 min+ at rush hour to and 90 min back, without a crash or event on

Option 2: Train and Luas. Circa 90 mins as well. Now the difference is from a money point of view the public transport is cheaper and also I dont have to pay for parking

In terms of waiting around its little to non waiting around. I get off train and walk across to waiting Luas, same on way back.

The issue I have, which is really annoying. To get to the train I have a 5 min drive. My preference would be to cycle but its a small back road which loads of people have figured out it is a back way into a few commercial estates. So the road is a time bomb in morning and evening with cars going way above the speed limit to get to/from work. It's so dangerous a few older neighbours who are retired will time so they dont have to go out on road in morning/eveing time during this rush. Awful sitution to be trapped in your house because its not safe to drive on a small road to get to a village etc.

If those cars got taken off the road it would be safe to cycle for me and the children in the area who are also driven 5 mins up the road

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994894#Comment_120994894

It doesn't cost less to drive. It's more convient and people are willing to write off the cost. Plus I again refer to laziness

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994931#Comment_120994931

You and I are lucky that we live near to rail transport (which is proven at this point).

I did say busing it, if you were to Bus from where you live how long would be looking at?

gooseman12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994936#Comment_120994936

I agree, it is just a perception of costing less, but until this perception is removed via extra direct costs people won't change.

If they are hit both in time and money people will change, some won't (and probably never will) but most will

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994955#Comment_120994955

No idea, they have a bus but i don't use for the simple reason it is too slow. Why is it slow? well the bus lanes are full of cars because the roads are too small for all the cars

I know DCC are putting in a bus lane monitoring system and hopefully that will resolve it

Yes I am lucky, but when I discuss about putting trains into other parts of the country people don't want them, instead we are sitll in the "build the road" mentality which I thought was gone with the last generation

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994963#Comment_120994963

The cost of cars has gone up and up and up and up. Fuel is up, insurance is up, service costs are up, pruchase costs are up, oarking is up, tolls are up. The only thing that has gone down in reality is tax.

Yet people still pick it.

Meanwhile a 90 min pass on train/luas bus is 2 euro

SuperBowserWorld

Just see today ... 2 kids killed in road traffic accidents yesterday. There has been an increase of road deaths of 30% since 2019. Also, how many more horrible serious injuries.

I dunno. I think we lose the run of ourselves when ever we get some extra money in this country. It's rarely invested in anything long term. Just new cars etc etc etc.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994928#Comment_120994928

Oh, I'm in agreement with you: personally, I'd be in favour of banning or severly reducing non-essential personal motor transport for non-residents from the city center. Realistically, though, that's unlikely to happen.

magicbastarder

How many public car parks are within a few hundred metres of Grafton Street? Within what is essentially one of the most pedestrianised zones in Dublin? Brown Thomas, the bankers, two on Drury Street, Stephens green centre, probably a few more. We're inviting all that traffic by having allowed those to be built.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994978#Comment_120994978

Less time and hassle are worth more than the cost of running a car. If you need to get more than one bus/Luas/DART to your destination then its always faster to drive.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994801#Comment_120994801

Obviously not. Its like smoking. You must pretend to be trying to eradicate it while keeping the tax take up. Have you seen how much the government get out a €50k car?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994817#Comment_120994817

That would be the ideal scenario. Mandate that all the jobs that could be done from home during covid continue to be done from home. Less cars on the road. More space for everyone else. Take the time thats happening to actually put in some public transport that works.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994931#Comment_120994931

I have a few roads like that along my cycle too. Its scary cycling along them.

But wouldnt it be easier to CPO land along the road and make it a cycle lane, or make the footpath a cycle lane and CPO some land for a nicer footpath the other side of the hedges, houses etc. That way you can have peds, cyclists and cars who all need the road, because there is no other viable road or that one wouldnt be busy, segregated.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995189#Comment_120995189

Mandate WHF to reduce traffic? I've heard it all now.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995093#Comment_120995093

If I'm not mistaken, most of those car parks received tax breaks to get built!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995216#Comment_120995216

I refer you to this kind of NIMBY shite which gets picked up by the local populist councillors and TDs: https://communitiesnotcorridors.ie/

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993812#Comment_120993812

I strongly suspect that is the case. The Dublin bus structure, and I presume it's similar for other cities, is primarily radial from the city center. If I'm going into town for work or (now I'm only in Dublin for visits) an evening's social activities, the #11 is frequent enough, fast enough, and not too pricey.

However, to get to Tesco's, my old school, or even the barracks for RDF duty, there is no bus route. One commutes once a day each direction normally into town, but how many times are trips done cross-town?

That said, the article talks about it from a 'climate' perspective. If cars are getting more efficient, which they are, especially with hybrids (17% of new sales), and many of them are going electric (20%, plus another 7% plug-in hybrid which will cover the 2km trips), then the net impact of the cars seems to be reducing, which I would take as a positive.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995179#Comment_120995179

The tax take on cars while high doesn't meet the true cost from cars when you look at health, etc.

In addition, transport issues are a big concern for companies and making Ireland less and less attractive to foreign investment. We lost many players who relocated from the UK after Brexit partly because of our traffic.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995497#Comment_120995497

The only thing that is benefitted by hybrids or electric cars is the car manufacturer. The true cost of those cars is shocking if you look at them from an environmental perspective (never mind the social perspectives)!

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995549#Comment_120995549

Hybrids and Electric Cars basically follow the carbon credit model: You can be as environmentally irresponsible as you like so long as you can pay someone to take your Carbon Credits 🙄

Remember in 2007/8 the CO2 changes came in Diesel was considered "Green" 🤣

GAS!