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Is it normal in life to feel invisible as a man?

[Deleted User]

Mid 20s, work from home in IT, most of my friends live abroad in different countries and those that don't are too busy in life for us to really get together and do much these days. I've tried to keep a social outlet through martial arts clubs like BJJ and Judo, but it feels very hollow and forced in a way I can't describe.

Most of the time though, I can't help but feel invisible when I go through life. Nobody really seems to interact with me besides cashiers or librarians when I go to collect books from the library. Even in the clubs it feels like most people (mostly men since it's martial arts I suppose) don't really mix with each other beyond a name only basis.

Does anyone else feel this at times? I've read through US-centric forums like reddit, and there is strong undercurrent from the answers that this is what most men experience when they go through life.

I think it has to be the phones and the internet. Too much internet.

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Dohnjoe

Sounds like loneliness. It's possible to be surrounded by connections and opportunities but still feel lonely. Which can create a feeling of "invisibility", a seeking of attention that may not be there. Having lived abroad in many countries by this stage, there's a huge difference between friends and real friends

This can happen to anyone regardless of age/sex. I think it's important not to dwell to much in it or seek any greater meaning. It's a good idea to keep seeking quality friendships and relationships, or re-forge old ones (if possible)

SuperBowserWorld

I would imagine working from home and dealing with work colleagues virtually is not helping and it's limiting your outlook and horizons. You are only mid 20s. And you work in IT. Now is an excellent time to work and travel abroad and maybe get out of your funk.

Apiarist

Yes, it is normal, but probably not desirable, as people generally need meaningful social interactions to feel well.

My advice is to get a hobby that you can love with a passion. It would either help you to find like minded friends, or at least you will have something to distract you from being lonely.

whisky_galore

Things like those kinds of martial arts clubs and gyms are useless for socialising. People just turn up, do the thing, pack up and go home afterwards.

Try something like hiking or dancing.

ancapailldorcha

I would say that this is pretty much a given for most single guys beyond a certain age. Most my friends either moved back to Ireland or just never left. Even then, they don't seem to get together all that much.

I'm in London and I've a few friends I see regularly but on the whole, I'd agree with the OP. When you're an introvert it doesn't help and if you're not a drinker, that's another impediment. I largely feel invisible most of the time and I've just gotten used to it. Even when I go home, my Mum asks what I got for my niece and then I'm pretty much left in silence.

Of course, the elephant in the room is that, for me at least, the internet has ruined socialising in much the same way that Netflix did for video rentals. Socialising just isn't something I enjoy when I've a magic box in my pocket with which I can be endlessly entertained, engaged and informed. I remember meeting a friend for drinks in London and he spent a sizeable portion of time just going on and on about a topic I had no information on. Wasn't fun and this was someone I'd known for years. Just wandering into a crowd and talking sh*te with people isn't something I can do anymore.

If you are feeling lonely, beyond finding some passion that you can share with others, there's not much you can do.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983071#Comment_120983071

I think your right, something like a hiking club would be brilliant because you have plenty of time to chat,

Gyms of any sort you are there to work so its hard to chat,

Only on Tuesday night i sparked up a conversation with someone in the gym who i see there from time to time but they seem to be always alone ,They actually asked if i'd like to go get a coffee some time i had to be honest & say i literally don't have time between work , kids, wife , hleping my mother in law & visiting ill parents, I feel bad about but others have to come first,

iptba

When I was younger, I did language classes and meet-ups. I had a good level from school so didn’t do much between classes/meet-ups. Anyway found chatting in another language a good excuse to ask new people about themselves and similarly talk about myself.

I also found doing voluntary work good for this and made long-term friendships from it.

iptba

A lesbian, Norah Vincent, disguised herself to live as a man for 18 months. She subsequently wrote a book about it.

I remember reading either a summary of it or an interview with her about it where she talked about feeling invisible and alone as a man.

She said something along the lines of strangers being more wary of men and much less likely to engage in friendly chats e.g. in a shop.

John_Rambo

Very tough for men and women in their 20's now compared to when I was in my 20's.

Anyone that tells you we had it tough in the 90's is spoofing. Cheap rent, amazing social life, great opportunities, travel was encouraged, one person could get a mortgage, face to face interaction all the time.

Could you afford to take a year off and visit some of those friends? Do a bit of solo travelling?

NSAman

I’m an old fart, just to let you know, unless you hone your social skills early in life, it’s just going to get worse.

That little phone with all it’s information and connectivity has robbed people of the ability to converse.

you really have to do something to put yourself out there now. Somewhere where people can actually talk, pubs ‘ clubs like walking/ hill climbing where people have time to converse.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992664#Comment_120992664

I'm reminded of this from Seinfeld:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7JcGYilsuE

Sadly, I'd have to agree with you. As you get older, you do seem to prioritise stability, predictability and routine a lot more. The issues I mentioned above are dealbreakers for a lot of people, particularly when the internet has so much to offer though it is a poor substitute.

Mobius2021

Yeah it certainly is a thing. I think women are so much better than men for maintaining social connections.

I'm in a similar enough boat - 40, married, full-time Monday to Friday job and two young kids. I really need to join some clubs or classes to meet new people. My friends and I find it hard to meet up, we're all in the same boat with jobs and young kids. Giving it a go to meet up for lunch but hard to find a day that suits most.

As for clubs I'm trying to find something that doesn't eat into too much weekend time. The obvious time for me would be a hiking club but that's a full day away by the time you drive to and from the trail.

Also going to give some random social groups a go on Meetup.com. But again trying to find the time and/or avoid making excuses is tough. 🙂

o1s1n

A lot of guys are just crap at making new friends, especially when they get older.

Couple that with getting married / having kids /drifting away from friends they made when they were younger and you end up with a lot of lonely dudes.

So no, I don't think it's 'normal' to feel invisible as a man in that it would be 'normal' to feel invisible as a woman. it's a 100% self made situation that you can't blame on your gender unfortunately.

Luckily though it's actually something you can fix by putting yourself out there and getting involved in things. It's one of the reasons why I always say hobbies are so important. Yes it's for fun, but it's a fantastic way of meeting people.

The amount of new people I've met going to gigs and through musical interests over the years for example is huge.

listermint

This may go against the grain... have you considers going for a role that's office based or at least more office based in IT. You'd meet more people your age and give more opportunities for real human contact.

I personally wouldn't want to wfh at that age. That's just me.

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983071#Comment_120983071

Yes, I agree. Martial arts is not like hillwalking (great for meeting new people!) , in my experience, where people like to talk.

I don't think it's a man thing. It is not easy to meet new people.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169233#Comment_121169233

I've a friend who's absolutely mad into hillwalking and she's made a tonne of friends through clubs over the years. Really wide range of people too from all different backgrounds.

I would say it's something for folks slightly older than the OP though, I think most of the people she's be out walking with are late 30s early 40s+

OP you're 25, prime of your life. Get out there and throw yourself into things before you're old and laden down with responsibilities.

Bluefoam

The artist Maser arranges hillwalks that are there to bring people together in a social environment... specifically to deal with the issues you're talking about.

https://www.thedublinboysclub.com/about-1

Esho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169303#Comment_121169303

Yes , good point.

ancapailldorcha

I'm really bad at putting myself out there to be honest. I know the solution to being more social but I don't drink. I'd previously gotten around it with a city walking group here in London but Covid put the kibosh on that. Now, I've a problem with my right foot so I'll have to have a rethink.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120982792#Comment_120982792

There's a case for it though, if you're socially awakward and struggle with human interacttion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUr-SYeoQsU

I don't mind if you forget me.

Having learned my lesson. I never left an impression on anyone

hayrabit

yes, it is :(

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120983071#Comment_120983071

Absolutely recommend hiking and dancing too. Especially Salsa as A) Its sexy as hell when you get it working and B) I have always found classes for it to be heavily over subscribed by women so they really welcome men. Though maybe that pendulum has swayed back since my last experience years ago.

As for BJJ clubs it can certainly be as you describe. But it is not always a given. For example in one of the clubs I train and teach in for BJJ we occasionally lock the doors after the classes - get some beers in - and do drinking and kettle bells and the like until the UFC comes on. Then we project that onto a big screen and watch it together. It all becomes a bit of a love in man cave mens shed vibe thing with a lot of talking about our problems and goals and dreams and issues and the like.

But it takes people to be the first to step up and kick off something like that. Otherwise it will just stay the way you describe it above.

Oscar_Madison

Hi OP- whilst working remotely does limit your social interactions with work colleagues, from experience, whilst some friendships can be forged, I find that whilst I get on with my work colleagues, when they move roles that’s really the end of the “relationship” - I wouldn’t really consider them friends - I’ve a few “friends” that were first work colleagues in my 20s but that’s it really and that was nearly 30 years ago😀

Working in an office with others does reduce the feeling of loneliness to a degree vis working remotely but when you down tools and it’s just you and your shadow for company every day, it’s probably time to start doing something about it.

You mention you have friends in Ireland “doing other things?” What other things and why aren’t you doing “things” with them? If they’re good friends then try and make an effort to meet up , even if you feel you have to make the effort Vs them- it’s worth it in the long run- investing in friendships today will stand to you long term.

Yes joining clubs etc is a good way to meet people but really you do need to be interested in that activity in the first place- even if sport isn’t your thing, there’s groups like cycling that cater for all levels, canoe clubs are always welcoming new members- photography clubs are popular and also have outings etc if less energetic.

If travel is your thing, consider asking a friend how’d they feel about going on an extended trip with you- Europe Asia America etc?

Please don’t let loneliness or “waiting for something to happen” spoil your 20s - even if you don’t have people around you, try do do something yourself- it will definitely give you an emotional lift and you’ll find things might start to fall into place for you also- existing friendships might become more natural and fluid - you’ll have something interesting to talk about and you’ll become interesting too.

I have a particular friend who probably enjoys his own company better than most and doesn’t have a need to be always being surrounded by others- however, one thing he’s very good at is making new friends and is constantly meeting new people - I wouldn’t have that in me to do and besides I’d prefer a few close friends than many acquaintances but he has that gift in spades- we all have our gifts and contributions to the world, try and identify what yours are.

Best of luck.

kerryjack

Fortunately I am married to a woman that is very sociable and she drags me a long to meet a few friends husbands that are nearly as unsociable as myself, Don't drink a lot anymore so not too bothered about going out.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058309433/is-it-normal-in-life-to-feel-invisible-as-a-man

It can be common, but I don't think it's normal at all. We humans need a community and it takes time and effort to build it when people are so mobile. Every time I've move somewhere new, I have to make this effort. To get to know my neighbours, to join the local clubs.

You need a new social circle there Ekerot, your old friend group has dispersed over time. I don't know where you live, but for me, neighbours and local groups are always the easiest for getting that connection. Sport can easily become a bubble, because it is often an escape for people, they go to sport to get a break from their other responsibilities, so folding one world onto the other is exactly what they don't want to do. I think this is what you are experiencing when you say it is feeling forced..

Coming back to local connections, what about where you live, do you know everyone/anyone? Ever invited the neighbours over for a cuppa? When I move somewhere new I either call to people's doors with a box of chocolates or something and introduce myself, and get their numbers. Even a couple of years later I've done this, with a "hey, I never properly introduced myself".. Usually I end up getting roped into something like picking up rubbish once a year or something, but it's worth it for making local connections and getting involved with the community. That sense of giving back is important for your own mental health, you get feel useful and not invisible. Good for your self-esteem and sense of belonging.