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Doping megathread - I can't even think of a witty tagline

CramCycle

So for many years, initially brought around by legal concerns, we have had a very tight leash on doping discussion. Despite what some might think, this has been in the main to rigidly follow the rules. After several years of no legal action being brought, to the best of our knowledge against any site for discussion in this area, we are now relaxing the rules somewhat.

The rule was initially two fold, one for the legal aspect and two for the simple fact that doping insinuations ruins discussion as it diverts all discussion down that rabbit hole. To counteract this, any and all doping discussion or insinuation, no matter how mild, will be moved here. If the moderating team, are not sure on whether a post crosses the line, then it crosses the line and gets moved here.

Rules will be simple, moderation will stick to the base rules of civility and discussion, you must engage in discussion to continue posting and you can't be a d1ck to other posters who disagree with your view. All posts in other threads that even hint at it will be moved over, and if a person continues to post in a similar fashion outside of this thread, it will get a warning/ban as we do now anyway.

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dahat

In many sports athletes are assets and regularly play with painkilling injections to compete. Soccer especially is rife with this & it amazes such actions are widely accepted & almost applauded.

Nadal another one who has terrible injuries to his joints but for years has been playing with injections but again no attention to that.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018117#Comment_121018117

Soccer will never damage "the brand" the way cycling did and rugby is thoroughly up its own hole about being a sport of gentleman who play the game in the right spirit.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017835#Comment_121017835

They don't care though, that's the difference. Cycling (although only certain nations) and to a slightly less extreme Athletics care. Other sports don't, we are outliers in our disgust. I still despise it, just get that we are not the norm , particularly in this part of the world.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017835#Comment_121017835

This is just a brief overview of football, doesn't even touch on other major sports.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3E3hZyx-8BQ&si=eGDPQqMCWusPaZyx

I watched amateur strongman competitiors take nandralone and dianobol to take part in local or regional competitions, that they had to pay to enter, to win trophies that nobody outside their small group would know anything about, much less care about.

The idea that pro athletes, with the money that's at stake, are not seeking out anything that will give them an edge is, to me, nonsense.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017044#Comment_121017044

Just show them Fuentes admission to the doping of Spanish World Cup winners or Cascarino and Cappelo's comments on "vitamins" in soccer.

Then you have Messi's growth hormone drugs and the injected pain killers that are routine in soccer.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017044#Comment_121017044

It's a point I've made repeatedly to fans of football, GAA, rugby etc. and it get pooh-poohed.

Coming from a background in martial arts (MMA), and having worked as a personal trainer (particularly in a power lifting/strongman gym), I'm more than familiar with the idea of athletes doping.

It may be the cynic in me, but I don't believe for a second that the top sports people in every sport aren't doping to some degree. There's too much at stake, the margins at the top are too slim, and as the saying goes, 'if you're not cheating, you're not trying'.

Paddigol

Head of Athletics Integrity Unit takes aim at doping policies of other sports | Athletics | The Guardian

It's funny how the average barstool sports fan will immediately reference doping when cycling comes up, and yet almost every other sport gets more than the benefit of doubt. Has doping ever been remotely discussed seriously in the context of say football, rugby or in the country, GAA?

But cycling must eternally apologise.

The more money that's pumped into football, the further under the carpet the issue of doping is pushed.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994261#Comment_120994261

Say what you want about Gerlosteiner, it has just the right amount of bubbles for a hot day.

nicksnikita

Gazzoli the Astana took yesterday’ Arctic Tour of Norway stage after a year of ineligibility resulting from a doping infraction.

koutoubia

For me it became obvious on 'modern day' doping in 4 parts!

Cancellara co-ordinated bike swap (was in Roubaix?) and his dissappearing up the Kappelmuur* leaving Boonen behind like an amateur.

Froome going up L'Alpe D'Huez leaving Quintana standing. On one specific corner Froome's bike was flying and his cadence simply not matching the speed.

Froome in the Giro. What was he 5 mins down..and then has a 'Good Day' and rides away from the best in the world and wins by mins.

Jumbo Visma:

2 or 3 years ago in Paris -Nice and 3 of the team TT-ing away from everyone.

WVA in the tour. Up the road every day. EVERY FU****G DAY for almost 3 weeks.

Roglic and Vingo superb TT'S in the Giro and Tour respectivley.

Sadly I am around long enough to know if it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck and looks like a duck ..its a duck!

Macy0161

For me, it comes down to what they said versus what they did. Hoist with his own petard.

One of the things about the mpcc was the corticosteroids enforced competition rest period - obviously subsequently it emerged that skineos had used TUE's that would've broken those rules, with high profile riders. IIRC the MPCC accepts that for medical reasons corticoids are the appropriate treatment, just not in or just before competition (a bit like Froome with the Predislone, if you're sick/ injured enough to need them, you shouldn't be racing)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994261#Comment_120994261

The difference is some teams blab on about doing things differently and having "thin blue lines".

Kinda similar to the difference between Armstrong and the rest. Another guy who couldn't shut up about how clean he was.

Mefistofelino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993867#Comment_120993867

Not really outlandish. Only about half of the top tier teams are in the MPCC for whatever reason. And several of the teams within it only adhere to the rules when it suits them.

Oh, and one of the original signatories was Gerolsteiner.

nicksnikita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990130#Comment_120990130

That’s outlandish 🤣

I had forgotten that and that’s why I reckon a documentary is essential. It would piece together a really ugly jigsaw or what Sky/BC really is/was

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990067#Comment_120990067

My favourite is when they refused to join MPCC because they claimed their own rules were even stricter 🤣

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989971#Comment_120989971

I should probably have gone "zero tolerance" - when Yates, Barry, Jullich et al walked the plank. They've been redefining what "clean" is since day 1.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989904#Comment_120989904

What do you mean "when they decided to go zero tolerance"

They had the "thin blue line" down the kit from day one and sir. Corporate bullsht speak Brailsford always said they were going to do things the right way.

Macy0161

I guess after the TUE's and the Jiffy Bag, not to mention Geert Leinders, the clear out when they actually decided to go zero tolerance, they've managed to filibuster it to a certain degree. Even the Freeman revelations have dragged out. It would need Freeman to pull the pin at this stage.

Regarding motordoping - I just find it hard to believe given how many people would need to be involved in a world tour team. It's over 13 years since that Ronde with Cancellera, and no one has anything more than suspicion? In the CX case, there was a much smaller team, and they still managed to get busted!

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989762#Comment_120989762

Didn't they employ Leiders former Saxo Bank doctor to?

Awful bad luck with these renegade doctors buying testosterone in the hope someone might take it.

Mr. Cats

Yes, and they nearly all ended with a quote from British Cycling along the lines of ‘this was a lone wolf & doesn’t reflect our values’ ie move along, nothing to see here.

It’s not credible - he was the Chief Medical Officer ffs

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989540#Comment_120989540

The statements I read over the last few days seemed very short and matter of fact surrounding confirmation of his ban.

I suppose I just thought when that day came it would be a much bigger story than it seems to be.

Mr. Cats

Here’s a BBC article from a couple of years back - thought this section was decent…

”Brailsford and Peters are yet to comment on the verdict, but Ineos released a statement criticising Freeman, and insisting that it did not believe any rider ever used or sought to use the testosterone. What exactly Ineos believe Freeman did with cycling's doping drug of choice, after having it delivered to the sport's headquarters, remains unclear.

Maybe it would have helped if Brailsford had been asked to give evidence at the tribunal. In her final summing up last month, Freeman's QC Mary O'Rourke described the Team Ineos boss as "the spectre missing at these proceedings".

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/56384769

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987547#Comment_120987547

I haven't gone searching other languages but the British cycling media seem very reluctant to ask questions in regards Freeman and the marginal gains that created the "medal factory" or Sky's amazing run of TdF wins with 4 different riders.

griffin100

Boonen was certainly not shy in accusing Cancellara of motor doping. Given that we all know what a motor assisted e bike looks like now when it’s motoring that footage is certainly suspicious.

Mr. Cats

Cancellera does look like he’s on an e-bike in fairness. Flying up the hill seated, on cobbles, without putting in much effort by the looks of him is quite suspicious.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911335#Comment_120911335

https://youtu.be/8Nd13ARuvVE

This is the video which raised most questions about Cancellara if you haven't seen it.

While not definitive the footage is rather bizarre. Deals with how it's done first and footage from 3.30 in.

Mr. Cats

Was Freeman an employee of Sky and/or British Cycling at the time? If so, shouldn’t those organisations also be sanctioned?

dahat

Masking agent so may as well be a PED.

Squidgy Black

Hessman tested positive for a diuretic

https://x.com/jumbovismaroad/status/1691849896482013343?s=46&t=EzAvU7O51qn7Pk6HLURULw

Junior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120985647#Comment_120985647

I don't think it was anything in particular, the man had a mental health crisis when faced with the enomirity of what happened and he made some terrible decisions and compounded them by just surrenduring to the sheer chaos of it all in the hope it might end.