At the start of the full invasion last year I seem to remember a substantial group of Russians having a demonstration, except not against the war.
A group of them drove along the M50 waving Russian flags and some had Z signs as well. Pretty obvious they were fully supporting and cheering on the invasion.
There has been several of these Russian demonstrations across Europe, some seemed to be well organised.
I agree that we should not be blaming every Russian and dehumanising them all just because they are Russian, I dont think this is a road we should go down.
But you keep stating this is all on Putin and absolving the entire Russian population, even where many clearly support and cheer on the war. This is also wrong IMO.
This thread really has gone to Sh*t.
Unless you say the Ukrainians are thrashing Russia you are attacked.
There is no comparison between a FPV drone with a coat hanger trigger and analogue video that cuts out before impact, and the lancet.
Every western media source says the same, the Ukrainians say it, just google it.
Russian men of fighting age who have a conscience should be joining up with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Russia_Legion
Any Russian citizen living or travelling to the civilised world should be made sign declarations at the border denouncing Putin's mafia regime on the understanding that they can only enter/remain the country if they're happy for that form to be sent to the Kremlin.
Any Russian already here and expressing support for the war should be repatriated immediately.
I had the "pleasure" of being picked up by a Russian taxi driver over the weekend who had the **** cheek to start complaining about Ukrainian refugees during the drive. Sadly, as she's married to an Irishman, it's unlikely she could be deported so I had to settle for pointing out her hypocrisy.
Is this also based on the video of the production that used mirrors to make the facility and production line look larger?
Imagine starting a statement with 'according to Russia'......
For every lancet video there has to be 2 dozen Ukrainian FPV drone videos.
Certainly doesn't appear to be any answer to that drone! We've seen Ukrainians fly them into tank hatches, into the back of an open BMP etc...
Indeed, but it's a Russian claim (they've even used CGI in some "reports" to make factories look larger than they are)
We'll see if a) it's true and b) their new drone systems even work
It was an article I posted some time ago from a Bulgarian news site showing a tour of the Lancet manufacturing facility, there were piles of what looked like completed Lancets ready for shipment to the war zone.
In addition. The term "cope cage" was used because early on in the war russia were installing these things in a desperate effort to protect themselves from Javelins and NLAWs. Which were absolutely tearing apart their tank columns. Of course they provide no real protection against these weapons. Hence "cope cage".
They have however been shown to be effective against FPV drones. Drones dropping grenades into the tank hatches and also against lancets. There's several pictures of same.
I don't think they were making a mistake, they knew exactly what they were doing, bar the bank guarantee which was a second go at loot taking at the nations expense.
Yes, and using the definition of a state as being freely and democratically elected by the people, who can then control the actions of the state. But this is not Russia. Russia was illegally hijacked by Putin, and its now a dictatorship, with Putin being the dictator. Citizens do not have choices in dictator run Country's. And this is the problem with Russia.
According to Russia the production of Lancets has increased 4 fold and continues to ramp I posted some links to the article a while ago, also the new version has been given quite a boost in capability. There currently appears to be no answer to this weapon, and optics and chips appear to be no issue as they are sourced from countries sympathetic to Russia. I saw this morning that Challenger tanks have now been seen sporting cope cages, it seems the only way to offer a limited degree of protection..
...
You can say that most (if not all) the republics dislike ( Hate, in some cases ) Ethnic Russian's be they civilian's or worse officials. And if/ when the Putin regime falls ( and it's in its death throes now) you will see a massive scramble for independence, or else some kind of association of states, but still having independence.
Being a citizen of a country makes you a part of it and ties you to its actions. Like it or not, the State represents its citizens. If you don't agree with what the State is doing, it is somewhat irrelevant on the macro scale. The people are the State and the State is the people.Your personal beliefs and stances come afterwards and they may mitigate the responsibility if strong enough.
While an individual should not be held liable for the unconnected actions of another individual, they are connected to all actions of the State.
Was wondering where strykers where hiding, unfortunately those f****** lancets are the enemy's best weapon
Don't know how this works out let's hope it's passengers survived
I see both sides are claiming the other is almost spent numbers wise and will soon collapse. Whatever about Russia I doubt Ukraine would be conducting any offensive actions if this was true.
What I do see is Russia throwing much attacks at klivsheevka or however you spell it south of Bakhmut and other point's along the line. They're meant to be in defensive mode but yet are happy to keep throwing reserves anywhere Ukraine are making even slight progress.
Hopefully Russia officers are lying about their losses to the top brass and they think the situation is better then it is. Because Ukraine will be much happier in a defensive position picking off Russian's then having to do all the attacking and taking heavy losses themselves.
I'm not trying to "fool" anyone. I have an opinion, one which you do not share. And that's ok. I find it bizarre that comments like this are accepted on the site. It is possible to be fully against the war and also NOT tar all Russians with the same brush.
But apparently this has led to me being accused of being a Putin-bot, a Russian or some kind of insidious propagandist.
I will leave you guys to it. (sorry, I have said that a few times, but I got caught up responding to people)
"What exactly do you think they should do? I mean, sit out on o'connell st saying "I am against the war in Ukraine" holding a banner?"
Yes.... that would be a start.
Nah Russians are utterly shameless and will gladly wear the label of being a war criminal just as long as we leave a crack open for them to slither back into our world. You're not fooling anyone in here. If the few decent russians have to be lumped in with the rest of the dirt then so be it. Nobody owed them anything.
I'm of the mind that there are good Russians who are innocent of crimes in this war, and that there also extreemly brave Russians who have risked it all to call out the Kremlin on their nonsense (& deserve a tonne of praise). These people should not be hurt in this war, and should be assumed innocent until proven otherwise.
However, we can't pretend that the Russian Federation is being a normal civilised state in all of this. Steps needed to me made to underline to the Russian population that the actions of their nation are not an acceptable norm. While I am opposed to the killing or starving innocent Russian civilians in this war, and I am not opposed to sanctions being imposed to illustrate to their entire nation the seriousness of what they have done, so that they can get the impression that despite what the propagandists are telling them, none of this is good. That Russia engaging in an unjust war of annihilation, means that they can no longer access Western luxuries.
They'll still live without these things, and hopefully remain healthy, but they will not be able to enjoy these advantages of a civilised world, thanks to the actions of their government. They cannot go on holidays whereever they like anymore, but that is no war-crime.
As for sports; they should remain banned until they withdraw from Ukraine fully and make amends with them. How dare they expect to come to international sporting competitions, the alter of peaceful contest between nations, and feel like they can compete as if nothing is happening? Worse still, actually using these contests as a platform for the Nazi "Z" symboligy.
They'll live without joining in on an Olypmics or a World Cup etc. They'll live, and they hopefully also understand that Russia has made a very serious & continuing mistake by invading Ukraine.
Thats a good point.
I think thats an unfair representation of my stance but fair enough.
I'll leave you guys to it
I don't agree that the sanctions on Russian citizens are 'unfortunate'. I have outlined the moral and political case as why they are necessary and justified. They send a message to Russian citizens about how this war is viewed.
We have seen Russian athletes abuse the concept of not representing their country by glorifying Russia. There must be consequences for such actions. I think there is a case to be made to banning Russians citizens from the Olympics.
Were they talking about all Russians everywhere? Or Russians in Russia?
I was commenting on the tone deaf offensive crassness of The Killers.
You specifically used the word 'shunned'.
If not bringing a Russian up on stage at a concert in Georgia is 'hardship', so be it.
If that's hardship, god bless their tough lives in comparison to what Ukrainians are experiencing. Strange that any comments reflecting on the actual hardships experienced by Ukrainians have to be dragged out of you, while you instantly jump on any slightest hint about civilian Russians experiencing (in comparison) trivial repercussions.
While Ukrainians are murdered and raped, you reserve your unprompted moral outrage for 'shunning' of Russians, defended with utterly false both sides historical comparisons.
I think it is a bit of a difficult concept to be honest.
Just because you are a citizen of somewhere, doesn't mean you should feel responsible for the actions of others. It just feels wrong to me.
I guess I feel different than most on here and I don't wish to "derail" the thread, I just wanted to give my opinion.
If you had even a basic understanding of what Georgia has suffered under Russia both historically and more recently (due to the war hundreds of thousands of Russians have moved to Georgia and massively driven up inflation especially rental prices driving locals out) you might appreciate why the Georgians despise the Russians and do not view them as their "brothers".
I visited Georgia last year for holidays and our driver showed us where in 2008 russian missiles had hit apartment buildings in Gori (the russians of course claimed there were "terrorists" there) and where the the tanks had stopped on the highway near the capital.
On a total side note- Georgia is an amazing country to visit and I would encourage anyone to visit!
I don't know. I haven't asked them.
I would guess that they feel that it isn't their responsibility because of the fact they had absolutely nothing to do with it. They happened to be born in a country that is carrying out atrocities.
What exactly do you think they should do? I mean, sit out on o'connell st saying "I am against the war in Ukraine" holding a banner? Fly a Ukraine flag in their window?
Despicable stuff from the Russians when they're recruiting guys like this in their army.
I wouldn't have an issue with Russian's taking part in sporting events once there was a caveat that they were representing themselves and not the country of Russia.
I absolutely agree that the country needs to be sanctioned and that those sanctions will impact negatively upon it's citizens. That is unfortunate but necessary.
But do you believe that someone from Russia living in Ireland should suffer some hardship because of their native country's behaviour?
This is how I got involved in this conversation. A poster said they believe ALL Russians deserve hardship. That was the point that I took an issue with.
I would bet that we agree on more than we disagree on.
So civilian Russians are supposed to get off scot free in terms of access to global sporting events, cultural events, there should be no sanctioning or boycotting of Western consumer products into Russia. Russia shouldn't lose access to any inter-governmental organisations? Western governments or entities shouldn't take any action that would result in ordinary Russians experiencing any discomfort, inconvenience, impact in any way shape of form from this illegal war?
That is your position?
It is one I completely reject as sending a morally bankrupt signal to Russian civilians about how their illegal war and atrocities in Ukraine are viewed.
My position is that there needs to be such consequences. Must be such consequences. And such consequences are entirely justified morally and as an act of political expediency.
They should be left in no uncertain terms that the invasion is viewed as illegal, and their soldiers as war criminals, rapists and murderers, gangsters and thugs. They should be left in no uncertain terms that such is not viewed as 'ok'. And that the results such as sancttions, shunning, boycotts, bans are the consequence of the illegal war waged in their name.
Report from the BBC on the torture and mistreatment of Ukrainian POWs by Russian captors:
"Last September, Artem Seredniak, a senior lieutenant, had already been in Russian captivity for four months when he and about 50 other Ukrainians were transferred to Pre-Trial Detention Facility Number Two. They travelled in the back of a truck for hours, without knowing where they were going, blindfolded and tied to each other by their arms, like a "human centipede", Seredniak told me.
On their arrival in Taganrog, he recalled, an officer greeted them: "Hello boys. Do you know where you are? You'll rot here until the end of your lives." The captives remained silent. They were escorted inside the building, Seredniak said, had their fingerprints taken and clothes removed, were shaven and forced to shower.
At every step, guards at the facility, who carried black batons and metal bars, beat them in the legs, arms, or "anywhere they wanted", Seredniak said. "It's what they call 'reception'."
"Rotchuk said the captives "lived in permanent stress" in Taganrog. He recalled meeting a man, also a doctor, who had falsely admitted to removing the testicles of a Russian prisoner, desperate to put an end to the violence. "He said: 'OK, just leave me alone, I will sign the confession.' The officers then intimidated the other medics, saying: 'Ah, you helped him.'"
Guards gave Rotchuk electric shocks, he said, but he resisted. Rotchuk told me he was sent to solitary confinement for two months as punishment. The beatings happened almost every day; sometimes, several times a day, he said.
Rotchuk remembered one officer who appeared to take pleasure in kicking him in the chest, which left him with a persistent pain. He complained, but was given no help. "I had to tell myself: 'Dude, stay strong, you can't control the situation, so you need to accept it,'" Rotchuk recalled.
Not everyone had the same resilience, though. Seredniak said a fellow Azov fighter, in his late 20s, broke a small mirror that hung above his cell's sink, and used a shard to slice his throat. The man was rescued by other captives, who stopped the bleeding with their hands. Days later, Seredniak said, the prison staff removed the mirrors from all cells."
If coming on here and answering questions you and a few others pose to me is derailing the thread, then perhaps stop asking questions or accusing me of being somehow Pro-Russia.
edit missed your edit there where you openly accuse me of being Russian? Haha. Jesus wept.
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