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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions Read OP before posting

_Kaiser_

Following a discussion with @Ten of Swords in the "Zero Refugee policy" thread, I am creating this one as a more general discussion on immigration to Ireland including refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants and essentially anyone else who arrives at our shores.

Given the challenges of discussing this topic without including all of these types, the reasons behind them, the challenges and potential opportunities it presents, and the possible solutions that could be implemented to address the issues, it was agreed to setup this more general topic.

Obviously no one wants this to become a battleground and ideally we can discuss the issues and solutions like adults, but I'll let ToS and the other Mods handle the rules side of it. It's an important topic though and one which affects everyone in this country - now or in the near future - and it's one worthy of debate.

To kick us off then...

I am fully sympathetic to genuine refugees and their plight, but I recognise that we can only do so much as a small island with limited resources and a lot of serious domestic problems already that we are abjectly failing to tackle in any meaningful way. I believe that we can only do so much to help and that there is no shame or "wrongness" in recognising and admitting that.

On top of that, I recognise that our Government's current approach is encouraging more and more people to arrive at our doors - many of whom are not refugees but economic migrants in search of a better life. Again there is nothing wrong with that either in principle - so long as they follow the established rules for entry and working here, are upfront about it, and have skills we need.

However, we must recognise that we are already struggling to provide supports to those who are already here (both natives, EU citizens, and other more recent arrivals) and that this is having a serious and negative effect on key services and infrastructure. This only hurts us all and we need to accept (per recent polls) that we need to revisit the strategy here.

As I've said.. charity begins at home, and we can't solve all the ills of the world, nor can we resettle everyone who arrives at our door. We need to impose stronger vetting criteria and processes, improve the turnaround time of deciding on applicants claims, enforce a stronger deportation/rejection process where needed, and put limits on the numbers we accept and process at any given time to allow this all to happen.

We need to stop virtue signalling and grandstanding for the world about how generous and open we are, and recognise that there is nothing wrong with protecting the integrity and stability of our own State as well - economically, socially, and for the future for all who live here.

Open to the floor...

Mod warnings:

26/11/23 - No discussion of the stabbings or alleged perpetrator permitted. No discussion of the resultant riots on Thursday permitted.

23/02/24 - Drop the anecdotes, they are getting out of hand in this thread. Unverifiable and agenda driven stories, typically designed to rile people up or get a reaction. They will result in threadbans if they continue. Previous threads were closed because they got so bad.

26/04/24 - No further discussion of last night's incidents in Newtownmountkennedy permitted as charges have been laid

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Comments

Goldengirl

Also as has been said before the majority 68% of immigrants have a third level degree or a qualification, which puts many into the skilled group.

As per CSO statistics to April 2022.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974335#Comment_120974335

It would be great if something like this happened here, ofc it will never happen though, (small minority) welcome illegal immigrants for some strange reason, who do not benefit this country whatsoever in any regard. They won't be paying your pensions, get with the times, and stop being dishonesty ignorant!

Real Donald Trump

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-29-accused-of-extremely-violent-attack-on-two-women-granted-bail-1514622.html

Perfectly normal, nothing to see here, just a violent attack on 2 women.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974390#Comment_120974390

Homophobic attack at that ,

But he spent 11 years living in the uk before coming here to claim asylum , fleeing from the UK imagine at the same time people are drowning trying to get to the UK,

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974407#Comment_120974407

Uk at war now too apparently. poor fella

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974375#Comment_120974375

Nobody playing silly buggers here only yourself. The title of the thread says “Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, solutions”. You want it to be about something else which it’s not.

The percentage of the people the thread is about who have the skills we need is 100%.

And it’s worth pointing out that 68% of that 100% have a third level degree or qualification which puts many into the skilled group. Of that number it’s difficult to know how many are granted visas in accordance with the requirements for critical skills, let alone how many of those immigrants relatives are entitled to visas and access to employment, or their children entitled to access to education which will enable them to continue to contribute to Irish society.

Thinking more of the long-term benefits to Irish society is a much better idea than zeroing in on individuals who aren’t making a positive contribution to Irish society and trying to extrapolate that example as a representation of immigrants more broadly speaking.

Initiatives like this for example are a good idea:

Doctors who have been working here for more than 2 years will immediately be able to access a Stamp 4 permit and spousal work rights. Stamp 4 offers the right to work without preconditions. Changes will significantly reduce administrative burden for affected doctors and make Ireland a more attractive place for doctors to relocate to, helping fill posts in hospitals around the country.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/f5335-up-to-1800-doctors-to-benefit-from-changes-to-immigration-rules/

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974109#Comment_120974109

The idea that high skilled migrant workers are valuable to an economy but not unskilled people is very popular with the Tory Party and the British right wing press - there was talk a couple of years back under the Johnson regime about issuing large numbers of work visas to high skilled workers from inside and outside the EU, but not to anyone else.

The idea is of course complete nonsense. The economy has just as much need and demand for unskilled workers - people working in hotels, cafes, restaurants, shops, fast food outlets, filling stations, construction sites, waste collection, nursing homes, hospitals, public transport, agriculture, food processing, delivery companies etc.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974390#Comment_120974390

This thread is about solutions.

Here is a solution: if you claim asylum here after living in the UK for 11 years, your claim is bogus, and you should be deported within 24 hrs.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974414#Comment_120974414

Must have missed that one

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974335#Comment_120974335

Difference is immigration is a huge issue in Polish politics. Here it is dismissed by politicians, media, etc., even when it is staring them in the face.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975147#Comment_120975147

It doesn't exist it's made up by the far right and anyone who wants to discuss it must be racist because only the far right want to discuss it ,

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966061#Comment_120966061

living by that philosophy would involve being ok with millions of refugees arriving to Ireland as there are hundreds of millions short both

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975180#Comment_120975180

Ehh…

Mr Morawiecki said the question will say: "Do you support the admission of thousands of illegal immigrants from the Middle East and Africa under the forced relocation mechanism imposed by the European bureaucracy?"

The video announcing the question includes scenes of burning cars and other street violence in Western Europe. A black man licks a huge knife in apparent anticipation of committing a crime.

Party leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski then says: "Do you want this to happen in Poland as well? Do you want to cease being masters of your own country?"

Not leaving much room open for discussion, are they? 😂

There wouldn’t be a similar referendum in Ireland for the simple reason that there wouldn’t be a hope in hell Government would attempt to use the same tactics again as McDowell did in the 2004 referendum on citizenship -

Remember how we were told in the beginning that some of the maternity hospitals were being overrun, and that the senior people in those hospitals had pleaded with the Minister for Justice to do something about the law? That was a wild exaggeration. In fact, remarkably, it transpires that most of the pressure being suffered by maternity hospitals is not caused by extra babies, but by Government cutbacks.

There has been a significant drop in the number of births in Ireland in the last 20 years, and a significant drop in the number of nights a mother stays in hospital while having a baby. As a consequence, the number of "birth nights" in Ireland's maternity hospitals has more than halved since 1980.

And yet they are suffering undeniable pressure not caused, as I said, by extra babies at all.

LIKE a lot of previous referendum campaigns, this one is full of scare stories based on untruths. And most of the scare stories are coming from people who are trying to make us afraid. Some day, I suspect, Michael McDowell will regret his role in trying to lead a campaign based on the politics of fear.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-10034383.html

McDowell regrets nothing.

Beasty

TomTomTim and Packrat threadbanned

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975263#Comment_120975263

The Lagos express was real and well documented...

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976986#Comment_120976986

I’m not sure what that’s in reference to? Your original comment indicated that the Poles are getting an option to vote on the issue of immigration in a referendum, then you went on to suggest that we couldn’t discuss immigration here (and yet here we are?), for fear of being branded right-wing, racist, etc.

What discussion is there to be had with the Polish PM who’s leaning hard into the usual racist rhetoric about immigrants from the Middle East and Africa? They’re not all that different from the racist rhetoric used by McDowell before the referendum on citizenship here, based on fearmongering nonsense and outright lies to appeal to people’s ignorance.

It’s that sort of shyte the National Party and the likes are at now - they’re not even right-wing, they’re just a pack of misguided miscreants hoping to stir up shìt. The biggest problem for them is that in the 20 years since the citizenship referendum, the immigrant population has exploded in Ireland, and people aren’t as ignorant or fearful of foreigners as they were 20 years ago.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975183#Comment_120975183

Well before you start worrying about looking after "millions of refugees " maybe show a little compassion to the ones already here.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977153#Comment_120977153

Why ?

do we not have enough Irish people in need of charity ?

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974390#Comment_120974390

Not being reported in any mainstream media

what the hell

Media narrative and bias clear as day to see

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973433#Comment_120973433

"That is not lockstep. That is incremental"

Oy vey.

Then you proceed to talk about "population density" and how ireland has a low population density. Brilliant, just brilliant.

Do you know where else has a low population density? The antarctic. Now ask yourself "why is there a low population density in the antarctic?".

As for your "we need to disperse our population to towns and villages..." As if that isn't happening with the likes of 100s of refugees being dumped in small towns. That's a sign of...you guessed it...overpopulation.

And you're wrong about it being about "the sahel region in the leaving cert", it was from a gcse study aid. You may have picked up the clue when I stated "junior cert level stuff."

A stupid, stupid line of argument, all day long.

You don't know the difference between capacity and density, you don't understand the word lockstep, you have no recognition of what's happening in the country whatsoever.

So yes, the country is overpopulated. You haven't typed a single word in argument against it.

The country is overpopulated and I can say that with ease because nearly every problem in the country is readily and clearly explained by...overpopulation.

Scarcity of resource. Housing, child places in schools and creches, stretched healthcare and so on that contribute to the secondary effects of lack of police, lack of teachers, lack of nurses and doctors and so on.

There are literally so many extra people being allowed in they are filling hotels. Take a step back, and that goes for everyone, take a step back and look at what that screams: yes, overpopulation.

It is completely out of hand. The worst thing to do is pretend it's something different, otherwise it'll continue and continue and continue. Worse and worse.

7 limerick cities worth of extra people have moved into the country, and that does NOT include those handed a passport, and they sure as fook have not built 7 extra cities. Overpopulation. The end.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978109#Comment_120978109

It was explained to you already how the country is not overpopulated.

wilful ignorance doesn't change it

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978332#Comment_120978332

As if everything else isn't enough,

7 cities worth of people arrive in the absence of 7 spare cities.

That's overpopulation.

The end.

You have an unbelievable cheek talking about wilful ignorance.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975263#Comment_120975263

Fergus Finlay- god love him, the snouts in the NGO trough were put out big time by the 2004 referendum, and the subsequent drop off in anchor babies.

A few clowns of justice minister's the last few years and we are back at record levels last year. So all's well that ends well Fergus, now let's never let the plebs vote on this farce again!

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978332#Comment_120978332

There you have it, the country is not overpopulated folks.

As long as you don't need a house, doctor, dentist, creche , school teachers for yer kids, Garda presence etc it'll be grand.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978421#Comment_120978421

How were they put out in the slightest? The referendum was about citizenship, didn’t have any impact on immigration figures, which have only been rising since 2004, enabling the growth of NGOs which cater to their welfare.

It certainly wasn’t because of a few clowns of Justice Ministers since 2004 that numbers of people immigrating to Ireland increased in the interim, much of it was down to our economic boom fuelled by immigrant labour, and the subsequent economic bust which saw many of them leave, and then our subsequent economic growth which made Ireland an attractive country for immigrants who again contribute significantly to the Irish economy enabling immigrants to stay and make a life for themselves and their children.

There’s no need for a referendum on citizenship again, precisely because of McDowell’s lies which led to the passage of the referendum allowing Government to make decisions regarding citizenship legislation. In an ironic twist of fate it was McDowell who lost his seat in the 2007 General Election, and he’s been hanging around Irish politics in one form or another like a bad smell since then.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978421#Comment_120978421

Did I miss something? Is somebody questioning the credibility of the citizenship referendum results?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978473#Comment_120978473

If the country was overpopulated, people would be leaving in their hundreds of thousands, as conditions would be beyond dire and unbearable.

30,000 Irish emigrants moved back home last year (a huge number of people relatively speaking). Why on earth would they return to the country if it was supposedly "overpopulated"?

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978617#Comment_120978617

I dont have a sub for the Irish examiner, so unfortunately I miss out Fergus Finlays articles! Hopefully Fergus n the rest of the NGOs get the extra funding they richly deserve in the upcoming budget!

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978789#Comment_120978789

Is that 30k figure net? Returnees vs those emigrating?

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978531#Comment_120978531

Did the number of asylum seekers drop off after the loophole was closed in the 2004 referendum?

Why on earth are you conflating it with the eastern Europeans that came over in the Celtic tiger?