Isn't it any wonder why they can't recruit Gardai with such outdated policies.
Looks at other police forces around the World and they've visible tattoos.
I do understand its part of the dress code but I think that needs to change.
I wouldn't even be a fan of tattoos.
Surgeons don’t spend all their time in theatre, most do not wear scrubs outside theatre.
Because, some types of discrimination is illegal, most are not, we all discriminate at times, so saying everyone should mind their own business and ignore appearance is impractical.
I’m aware no one is just going to mind their own business. I look after what I can do, I can nor would I try to tell someone how to think. I can of course point out to stupidity and bigotry of an opinion.
I can nor would I try to tell someone how to think
But you would make a judgement on them at first glance based on their appearance.
We all do, that's just human nature.
And because tattoos have a stigma around them (and don't say they don't), people are going to make negative judgements on Gardai with visible tattoos.
I was going to comment in this thread then I read it ,
Christ some of you people are stupid bigoted ill informed and possibly in need of mental health assessment
Like any other forum thread anywhere else in the world so.
Unless an offensive possibly racist violent tattoo or maybe on the face, it shouldn't be an issue
Their policies aren’t outdated. It’s pretty standard in most police forces that they have policies regarding tattoos, and it’s certainly not any indication as to why AGS are having difficulty recruiting people.
Their policies on tattoos is publicly available information, same as the policy for the Met police in the UK is publicly available information -
https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/foi-media/metropolitan-police/policies/dress-code-policy-september2022.pdf
It even makes this clear in the article in your opening post -
“An Garda Siochana Uniform and Dress Code is published on the Garda website and details provided in the Recruitment Candidate Information Booklet.”
The booklet says: “Tattoos and body art on the face, or visible above the collar, are not permitted.
“In order to retain a professional image, all other tattoos and body art must be covered while on duty.”
Sources also stressed that none of the officers had been sacked – or had resigned, as of last night.
Personally, I don’t care one way or another about tattoos, but I understand the reasons why the police or AGS in this instance or any employer would have an issue with tattoos, particularly in roles where they are expected to be engaged with the general public.
It’s not as though there’s a shortage of people who don’t have tattoos that anyone has to lower their standards to facilitate people with tattoos which don’t adhere to their policies.
There might have been historically but largely died out. I regularly interview people and have no recollection of anyone complaining about a candidate having tattoos. I've had elderly people without any visible tattoos compliment the tattoo on my leg. And I know people from all varieties of backgrounds with tattoos. A Garda with a tattoo if anything might indicate to me that they're not gonna make random weird judgements on the physical appearance of a person.
Believe it or not, I don’t judge people on their appearances. I’ve no reason to judge someone without even voicing a word to them.
Some tattoos have stigmas, it’s a big if a generalisation to say it’s going to have a negative effect. How would you know?
Yes . Echo this . Would imagine with them all over the head or anything nasty / racist it might be a turn off but it's something that is much more common than say 20 years ago.
Time to move on, AGS .
Ahh it's their body, their choice :)
Well I don't believe you.
Absolutely everyone makes a judgement on someone based on their appearance at first glance
As another poster puts it people use their stone age brain in lieu of time for proper analysis.
Don't try to pretend you are some way different or special, because you're not.
Yeah .Black looks good . Colour fades and the tats look tatty in time and illegible .
I think its unnecessary asking people to remove them.
As long as they are tidy and professional otherwise .
There are nurses and doctors with beards ( yes ;) ) and tattoos and piercings . Only allowed plain studs in ears and remove nose rings etc when at work .
Some of the loveliest, most professional people I have worked with .
Do you think Angolans are somehow stupid ? Never seen tattoo's before ?
Two of the most decent honourable people I ever met in my life were from Angola and they were far from stupid, highly intelligent men who learned fluent English and were not beset by the ignorance and pettiness that a huge proportion of our own are beset by. In fact most foreigners I know don't have the ignorance and pettiness that abounds in little ol' Ireland.
Some of the comments here are wild, tattoos looking wrong on women, professionals shouldn't have tattoos or they wont be taken seriously, are people so stuck in the past that can't see beyond their blinkers?
I will address the bit about professionals having tattoos firstly, some of the best care i have had in hospital was from doctors, nurses, healthcare assistants and porters who had tattoos, something i could discuss and build a relationship with them. A optician i attend has tattoos, very professional and fun at the same time.
As for tattoos on women, there are a lot of women with tattoos and they look great on them. And like with some fellas there are certain tattoos i think look rubbish but i don't judge them based on what they have, its just a personal taste thing. As example i don't like tattoos on hands or above collar, yet i can still talk and get along with folks who have those tattoos. Also some of the most stunning tattoos i have seen on women are cover ups for mastectomy scars, such as corset tattoo.
There are bikers who look gruff and unapproachable with tattoos and some of them are the nicest folks you could meet, some of them come from professions you would not associate them being in, such as doctors, guards, nurses, vets etc.
I would be less concerned with a guard, doctor, soldier, even a politician with having tattoos than how they perform and carry out their roles and engage with people.
I’m sure in 2023 you can have both
I don’t care if you believe me or not 😘
I’m not making any claim of being special or different, I am perfectly able to live my life without applying judgment to anyone.
Nothing special, just living my own life.
BS. They wear scrubs unless in clinic and even then ...
Nobody wears a suit while operating :)
Create a straw man and tear him down, amazing.
"However it's a personal choice and I respect that"
I do apply to everything that is within a person's choice, included clothes, hair etc. So do you my friend, whether you are conscious of it or not.
Ahh in fairness now, ‘twas yourself who created the strawman in the first place by substituting your own impressions for those you associate with a refugee in order to make a point about first impressions:
So I am an angolan refugee who has been trafficked to Italy and I'm an indentured prostitute.
While you have a legitimate point about first impressions and perception, you’re still relying on stereotypes and forming conclusions based on how you imagine other people would behave in those circumstances which, by no coincidence whatsoever, just happens to align with your own views! 🤔
I can see where it's coming from. I had a tattoo when I joined, but when I was getting it I knew not to have it below the cuff of a t-shirt, so it wouldn't show with the short sleeve shirt. Now, when I did that, I wasn't a Garda, but it was a thought I had in general that if it's showing below a tshirt some people may make assertations based on it (and considering it was far more blue than intended, people used to think I had a power ranger tattooed on my arm (I have Noob Saibot there).
So it really would depend on the tattoo. Some most certainly need to be covered up, but who makes that call? So just make it one rule for everyone. Simple to follow. Tbh, they shouldn't have gotten that far before it was said to them. When I joined the lad saw mine was not showing below the tshirt so all good, but he said that if it's below it they probably woulnd't get in. They're also not fired or anything, they are free to return once sorted. Sounds like they realised it should have been said before they were sent to Templemore.
My reading of the rules suggest anything below the wrist or above the collar are completely forbidden (I'm ok with this tbh).
But it has to be not visible in uniform also - so if wearing a short sleeve for example could one just wrap it? Not much point saying in theory a a lower arm tattoo is fine if in practice it's not. I complete agree on the point that we don't want to be getting into policing the content of them (and I do think that would be necessary) but does anyone know if any accommodations or procedures exist to cover lower arm tattoos?
Poster asked me if I think Angolans are stupid and then without reply tells me they are far from stupid, I don't think I have discussed Angolan's at all, baring that it was the random African nationality I picked for the one hypothetical example I used to highlight how first impressions, such as tattoos can change the outcome of an interaction. I picked this example because for me it's a perfectly legitimate interaction that might well occur and because it highlights how people's preconceptions and fears can be triggered or just enhanced by a tattoo. Is this a misrepresented proposition?(i.e. strawman?) You don't think this situation could occur? You think it's inconceivable that a police officer for a state that is notoriously tough on migrants, with a tattoo of some ancient warrior on his arm, could make a migrant feel distrustful? Do you think the tattoo makes the officer more or less approachable?
Just to be clear I purposely engineered the the hypothetical to suit my argument, of course I did, I am trying to highlight it. It's a legitimate tool for discussion.
Yes, you've to wear the long sleeve shirt.
But that's always an option?
Again, all seems perfectly reasonable in that case no?
There were long sleeve shirts, but I'm not sure now with the polos, don't think I've ever seen a long sleeve polo in general? The Garda tshirts were short sleeve too iirc. Issue with covering them is, it has to be uniform. Some members would wear white long sleeve tops underneath, others black, others navy, etc. Management, who care more about appearances than enforcement, don't like that. Resolution is to provide every member with long sleeve tops to wear underneath. Would need at least 3-5 per member to just about cover a week. Multiplied by ~14k.
The full policy is available to everyone to read:
I mean, they still require a proper crease in operational trousers... thankfully my mother was a dressmaker so the crease was sewn into every pants I had! It might be an old one actually, because it's still going on about shirts as the operational uniform, but it's not old enough that it mentions transitioning people and their uniforms, right before the sexist part where women can have long hair but mens hair has to be short. Unless religion. Which is also the only reason Gardai can now have facial hair. They actually tried to bring in it saying only Muslim men (as the main group this was aimed at) can have facial hair due to their religion. Queue many upset non-Muslim Gardai and now they can have facial hair. But not a long beard, only 2cm max. Some members may consider changing their religion to that of Sheiks, because then you can wear a dagger at all times, the only legal way to wear/carry a dagger at any time!
Tattoos used to be a way of expressing your individuality. Or marking out your gang allegiance. Or demonstrating your masculinity.
Now it’s just fashionable.
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