The hotdog stand owner you mentioned had a few thousand heavily armed and equipped battle hardened troops behind him, and took down several aircraft that were sent to stop him, after which all resistance stopped ( except for trench dug across the road outside Moscow.) No one interfered because everyone thought it was a coup, and were waiting to see which side would win. Even the police had left Rostov, the main military base in the region when Prigozhin appeared. Even Putin fled. The population of Moscow is roughly 12 million, so say 1.2 million takes to the streets....just how likely you think that this will happen? Putin has cracked down hard on protests so far, even protests where many thousands took to the streets. The protests have never been successful in Moscow or other Russian cities. A military intervention by one of the Silovicki or Oligarchs private army's might work, and that's a likely end for Putin, but the citizens rising up en masse? I doubt it very much
The slightest
Furze99, we have had this discussion before, and recently I again made the point that any westerner who is judging Russia through the eyes of western society, is on the wrong track, right from the beginning. Don't you understand? Russia under Putin ( and even long before Putin, back to the USSR days) is one gigantic mafia terrorist state, with world wide tentacles. You will have seen videos of how the North Korean monster Kim Jong Un controls North Korea. He controls not just what and when they eat, sleep and drink, he controls what they think. Putin has not quite reached that standard of depravity yet, but he's trying hard. I spent several years living and working there, and believe me, unless you have experienced it, you would not believe the level of control the state has over its citizens. And all done under "The Constitution and Law of The Russian Federation ". Anywhere, anytime, anyplace, you can be stopped by armed Police and your papers demanded. And they better be in order. And even if they are, that does not mean you are off the hook. As I heard one man whom had been stopped for a " Document Check" and was issued with a fine, protest why are you fining me? and the policeman replied " there's 400 pages in the Russian Law book, want me to open a random page? " So the unfortunate paid up and shut up. The slightest protest will be met with swarms of police in minutes, and those involved will be bundled into police wagons, and non too gently either. Putin cannot afford any challenge to his authority, so he cracks down hard when ever any kind of threat appears. But maybe at some stage, when the body count reaches critical mass in the republics, then you might see an organized resistance. There has already been the stirrings of resistance in some of the provinces at the mobilizations. But a break out like the 1916 Irish Rising? No, I doubt it very much.
Drove past this today, on holiday in the PNW. Mildly relevant to this thread:
Slava Ukraini
That's the whole point, they want to be identified, and I think that normally, in videos like these, the spokesperson calls out his on name, rank and unit. Maybe going public, they hope to get some protection? I don't know...you never hear any follow up videos. But one or two videos of what happened to ones who refused to fight, and got leaked out, shows some pretty grim and harsh treatment being meted out, including death threats.
Ok sorry my mistake.
My original question stands, is there any strategic advantage in capturing Kupyansk?
To add to my previous post I think you might mean Kupyansk which is over 100km from Kharkiv.
What’s not true??
Its widely reported on all news channels and sites.
I doubt its to make gains. Most likely its to bait Ukranian reserves away from any upcoming push in the south.
edit: snap
Land is land. But could be to force Ukraine to move forces away from the South to counter this.
That is not true.
Imagine if the US doubled the about of HIMARS missiles they sent.
Ukraine pulling residents out of Kharkiv as Russia is closing in.
Is there any strategic value in Russia making gains here?
Why would I do that, my good lady
I didn’t show any enthusiasm for the proposal, just pointed out that it isn’t as simple as saying “what are they waiting for, why haven’t they risen up”
Unfortunately there is no one to coordinate the masses to come out at the same in the numbers that might result in a change .It looks like a large number are just incapable of seeing the situation in Russia as it really is .
I know like, considering it only takes one person in a group to snitch and everyone in that group (and their families) disappear. That level of fear is crippling
Maith an fear! Given your enthusiasm, would you throw in the old shoulder yourself now?
Even if they get information that contradicts the narrative the means to coalesce and foment may be too stifled at civilian level. However the conscripts social media clips about shortages and conditions are a sort of affront like the Russia miners strike in 1989.
Oversimplification at its finest.
You should really head over to organise the coup. It’s bound to be easy.
Yes. But in the case of the current war, I do not believe for one minute that most ordinary Russians don't know what is going down, at least to some extent. Stop making excuses for them at this stage. They either know the war is completely unjustified and are sitting on their hands or they believe that Ukraine is part of their great Empire and that it should just acquiesce. Either way, their complicity is damning.
Some loon from Nigeria said (on Facebook) that was proof that Al Qaeda and the West have been in cahoots all along, and then went on to say that Russia and China would look after Africa a lot better than the old colonial powers. Russia and China will be propping up corrupt leaders and bleeding the countries dry, and the West will be asked for NGOs to up the ante on charitable donations. I hope that Niger's neighbours march in and kick some ass to restore the democratically elected leadership.
Like I said, it will happen when he becomes too inconvenient.
Dictators get taken down eventually.
It’s the oligarchs that are subservient to Putin not the other way around.
Otherwise Putin would be long gone by now considering billions of their wealth has been flushed away or frozen in foreign bank accounts.
OK, population of Moscow is over 12Mil. So to get 10% you would need 1.2M protestors. The protest you referred to had 50k. Among them was Mr. Navalny, who is still suffering persecution for being an opposition politician.
Putin will be dispatched by the oligarchs when he becomes either too weak or too inconvenient. He will be replaced be another thug and the Russian sh1tsh0w will continue.
Can we please get back on topic
That was 2011. That window on that kind of open display closed since then.
Ordinary Russians have been reduced to canon fodder now. The only protest possible now is getting captured by Ukraine.
Invading other countries is always the act of an insecure regime, Saddam into Kuwait, the USA into Iraq etc..
Even al Qaeda attacked them. I never thought I'd be on al Qaeda's side 😲
Did I say anything about it been easy or overthrowing the govt?
They could at least march or hold a demonstration to show their dissatisfaction with the Ukraine invasion.
They have done this before during Putin’s reign:
You couldn’t be more mistaken.
As you aren’t Russian, and don’t live there, what makes you think it’s an easy thing to overthrow the regime?
First off I am not Russian and don’t live there.
Your reply sounds typical of someone from the far left PBP types that defends Russia at all costs.
Dramatic HIMARS strike
It isn’t the water protests.
Why don’t you go over and lead the revolution?
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