I really like your posts and this one also is almost spot on, but sorry, for me, Phelan first touch all day was terrible. I know he got 3 points but he got enough good ball to have scored 2-5 and a lot of routine ball he needed a 2nd or 3rd touch. I really think he got 3 points because Limerick let him get on a lot a ball as they closed down Cody and TJ, they just didn't see him as a lethal threat.
But still well ahead of Ryan, Mossy and Donnelly on day.
All the talk will be about Lim shooting 21 2nd half points but the real platform was the incineration of our HF line after Deegan's goal. The Sunday Game acknowledged this with all three team of year half backs being Limerick, and all deserved, yet only 2 of the 6 forwards being Limerick.
Also, 5 KK men on team of year, and all 5 deserved, a huge haul for a beaten AI team. But that shows the real issue. This team has a tail of at least 3/4 players 8-15, that are just bang average at best, and when you enter the last 20 mins of an AI Final against a team as good as Limerick, will just get wiped out, and they were.
If we get serious IC replacments for these 3/4 and get Blanch and Carey back fit, we will go very close next year. If.
The fast tracking of Drenann, Dunne and Clifford is now a priority, we cannot go with this same hand again up front. The continual selection of players who consistently play no better than 6/10 and about 3/10 when the heat really comes on, cannot continue.
Well done to Lyng and team, a very good first year and if he's half as good as I suspect he is, he will see all of the above (and more).
Let no one even suggest we aren't the 2nd best team in the country, we have contested the last 3 national finals with Lim. The problem is there is a stand alone oustanding team at number 1.
footnote:
**** stuff from D Cusack goading Jackie that there is no talent coming through in Kilkenny. Last 4 YHOTs (might have been 5 if Drenann hadnt got injured) and 2022 U20 winners (won without having to cynically horse their opponents out of it to win it like Cork this year ).
Who won the toss? Did KK elect to play with that strong wind in the 1st half?
I was surprised when I saw the Sunday game and saw that up about the 60’th minute there was only a couple of points in it. It felt like it had slipped with about 15 minutes left but Kilkenny did claw their way into it but if I recall correctly Mosseys slip came at a crucial stage and Limerick scored a monster psychological blow soon after. There was no feeling we were going to bang over some quickfire points so we tried to chase a couple of goals instead, while Limerick tagged on monster blows.
We were of course trying to put out fires everywhere and our lack of quality depth in the panel was clear to see. Drop a Mick Fennelly into that Kilkenny midfield or centre forward and we would be a different animal. But unfortunately we’re not and that’s why there wasn’t a lot of optimism for our chances - Kilkenny folk know this is a team that is honest but far from vintage. Particularly from 9 up. In that light Derek Lyngs job must be looked at in a 3 year context. We’re not going to nip in and steal and All Ireland unless we evolve the squad and maximise our efficiency.
Some other thoughts..
-Blanchs loss bit deep. He is the prototype modern defender and we lacked his composure on the ball as an outlet
-Interview with Darragh Joyce in the examiner this week also a reminder on what we potentially missed out on
-IMHO Walter has a lot to give but not as a starter. That robbed us of a momentum checker in the second half. Hayes had him shackled in the second half but taking him off was a strange one when we could have moved him into the FF line (and if Hayes followed him all the better)
-Donnelly was free in the middle for two puck outs in the second half but Murphy didn’t give it and went long instead. We lost courage and some composure for sure. We can do the short stuff but as Tyson said everybody has a strategy until they are punched in the face. Limerick know if they punch us hard then we go back to our usual game and then they setup for that. And i’m not one that thinks we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater and move away from the key tenent of using/winning the long ball- but other styles have to be coached from youth up and people need to come in who can play it. Can’t just turn it on in a couple of years with people who can’t.
-We needed four goals and could have got them but the breaks didn’t fall our way. I felt we had their full back line under a lot of pressure if we could get the ball in there quick but as others pointed out we couldn’t get over their HB line in the second half. That said *we should have planned a way to work that - the conditions were well flagged *.
-Tom Phelan was bloody excellent in his first final. Only he got hooked and turned over for that goal chance he was kilkenny motm for me. One of the things he did really well that isn’t noticed is track the runner and not the ball carrier. We were so poor in general figuring out in the white heat of it who Limerick were going to work the ball to - and our men converge blindly on the carrier. It’s something Wexford do to us (and Tipp in the league) also and to be honest I think it’s due to our lack of football nous.
Overall I’m disappointed but realistic. What hurts is that normally when you lose you normally conclude you’re close and just need that extra per cent for the following year. But it doesn’t feel like that. We’re trapped in this purgatory where we’re good enough to beat the rest but not the best. We’re itching to find some of the stars of old again to truely compete rather than asking some of the stars of old to pull lightening from the sky one last time.
There’s hope, there’s always hurlers in kilkenny and there’s a crop of youngsters that have potential. There challenge is to tie it all together with some wit and method. Otherwise we’ll be losing similarly to Cork and that’s a much more painful and unsettling thought
My only comment on this: can I see the stats that show John Walsh is the top scorer in the last 3 championships.
This going to sound very mean but i only ask so it might save me watching the whole match back- did billy ryan touch the ball today? And if he did was it meaningful?
Welcome back 🙄 I never tried to justify Fogarty playing but would be very interested to see what team you would have put out today minus the 10 players plus the manager you think shouldn't be there and let people see if you're "correct" or not
Johnny Walsh would not have competed out there. He is not physical enough. To beat limerick you must be as fit as them and you must stick to your man at ALL times. Stupid comment but soo true .
65 adjudications are the umpires job. Was prob loads of bodies in Keenan’s way. Prob karma from 2019 the 65 anyway.
take out the 2 points. Kk would still have lost.
Just said I have a look in see the same old **** talk
comerman trying to justify fogarty on the team just because his best pal selector
he gone way past it
just to remind people at start of year I told you
Tommy Walsh not good enough Correct
padraig Walsh gone past it Correct
fogarty gone past it 4 years ago Correct
Donnely to slow Correct
mossy not good enough Correct
billy ryan Very poor Correct
walter gone past it 3 years ago Correct
Buckley finished 4 years Correct
Alan Murphy dissaster. Correct
Richie gone past it Correct
Told you Derek lyng no right to get job
now I see all agree after he proved it today with his decisions
people saying we missing Conor Browne
he was never good enough to play for kilkenny no skill could not pass the ball
Cody pet
in life you have to face reality Cody took the skill out of kilkenny hurling and until we train up skilled hurlers we going no place
people involved in squads tell me it’s the policy is to bring in big lads not skilled players some of kilkenny greatest were small men with big hearts and plenty of skill
facts are facts
I leave you with top scorer in the last 3 club championships Jonny Walsh
Going to sound terrible but here it is; hurling wise we have plenty. It’s fitness wise is the issue. When we had energy we were as good as them. But we lost for two critical reasons;
we ran out of energy. And it was very very noticeable.
we gave away soo many soft scores that had nothing to do with being out hurl’d. How many times did we not track the runners, we didn’t go with the man or left limerick un marked. And they got scores. It was criminal. Our attention to standing toe to toe was poor today. We ball watched far too much. But then a lot if it was out of tiredness.
if we only change one thing next year. We must must be fit enough to compete with limerick. We have the hurling.
we need the likes of Corcoran being fit enough to play this game. But man who can compete.
we need Carey, Blanchfield and Browne back bulked up.
we need to be super fit. Like limerick are.
Whatever about the 65 which I'm not sure whether it was or not but to allow the quick puckout when he had brought them back earlier in the match was bizarre. Didn't think the ref was great tbh he let too much go and to not notice Tom Phelan getting an arm to the face before he blew for a questionable overcarrying call was poor. He wasn't biased but he was inconsistent with his calls. Doesn't make much of a difference as we were well beaten anyway.
With regards to the older squad members I definitely keep some around if they want to stay but there is some particularly Hogan and P Walsh who should be advised to retire before they're dropped from the panel.
Congratulations Limerick. Analysis can kill analysis. Just bigger stronger fitter won.
I am sickened not just this loss but 4 now in a row, it's hard to take.
in my opinion thats what it should haye been all year this year , maybe not so much cork but clare were favorites amd somehow strong favorites despite losing heavy last year , i thnk 13/2 is generous on kilkenny
Really, I thought not giving kk the 65 and allowing Limerick take the quick puckout, with players in the square, which made it a 2 point lead for Limerick instead of all square was a huge error.
We're second favourites to win the All Ireland next year:
Limerick 4/6
Kilkenny 13/2
Cork & Galway 17/2
Clare & Tipp 11/1
Waterford 28/1
Wexford 50/1
Well said 👍I'd reckon the only apology Fogerty owes anyone is to Village for either batin him or his ould lad off the pitch in a club game. Otherwise no one can complain about his commitment
He lost control of the ball at one point late in the 1st half and I just got a feeling then that he might have taken a knock, or was winded.
He owes none of us a damn thing though, and singling him out for low insult as he has been above, is absolutely just not on.
Despite the result, and the second half, I think we can reasonably expect to have a big say again next year. The problem being, I don't think we have reason to expect a different outcome. Something for the long-term, ie root and branch change, is required urgently I think, rather than twiddling with tactics and formations.
Other than than, thanks and gratitude to the stalwarts who might now decide take a bow. Like CF, they owe us absolutely nothing.
You know we are done for when we are still relying on TJ to carry us through, and to bring on the old stalwarts like Buckley, Hogan to try and change things. Look they have been great servants but surely to god we won't see Wally, Padraig, Buckley, Hogan and Forgarty next year. Even the great TJ must understand that time waits for no-one and probably has come to that realisation too. These guys have been great servants as I said but have now lost 4 finals in a row, with 3 of those by big margins. I just can't see us progressing next year if we continue with the old guard (TJ exception if he decides to stay) or maybe that's how bad the talent pool we have at the moment.
At least 3 of our starting forwards wouldn’t make the worst Kilkenny team in my lifetime that won an AI (probably 1979). And that finished us. Once Limerick realised there was an almost non-existent scoring threat from those 3 forwards, they just soared in confidence, our half forward line was obliterated, and we got steamrolled.
The Limerick scores were sensational, but they came from a team that realised Kilkenny had shot their bolt. Even though it only drew them back level the 5 points after Deegan goal finished the match. I felt our last chance went when Phelan slipped and blew a golden pass from TJ.
The big reshuffle pre match meant our hoped-for sub impact got greatly reduced. Two the big three (Hogan, Walsh and Walter) were already on by 35th min, when we needed them around the 50th min and later.
Murphy didn’t have to even deal with block let alone a shot all day. That tells you our backs stood up.
No shame though, we are the 2nd best team in the country and Lyng must be given a lot of credit for getting us there.
Blanchfield and Carey will really help in 2024, Drennan and Dunne should come good to replace at least two or three of the forwards who simply aren’t top class. I think there is a very good chance we will be back in AI next year, a much stronger 15 than today. Good enough to beat Limerick? Maybe not, but def stronger.
Just like Tipp 2009, we must keep believing and improving.
Footnote
Well done Paddy Deegan, I really feared for him today, but he stood up big time, heart of a lion.
Footnote 2.
Keenan had an ok game but for the 2nd year in a row, a ref just didn't have the balls to stamp out throwing, Too scared to "spoil" the spectacle. Limerick are an all time great time but the throwing is simply atrocious.
Ah leave village alone he's been waiting a long time to slate Fogarty again, probably on the beer now celebrating but no comments on other players such as Kenny etc 🍻
Scandalous comment on Fogarty and not your first. You wouldn't lace his boots and not in terms of hurling but in terms of being a human. Sub standard.
Limerick awesome in that second half. Kk did lose their way but were lunch drunk. Great effort but lacking the class that limerick had. They took the hits and were still hurling. The two point swing on the 65 with 10 mins to go was the beginning of the end.
Ref was very good I felt.
Kk still best of the rest and would have out worked any other team in the country today.
Thought Fogarty was doing ok in the 1st half as part of a good defensive display. Was he injured and had to come off?
Very disappointing second half. Thought the referee was very poor, 7/8 obvious calls went against or weren't pulled with Limerick scoring almost immediately after each.
Beside that quibble, Limerick were much the better team in second half. They withdrew their half forward line, so even if the half backline didn't win primary possession their midfield/half forward line mopped up and couple of short passes/handpasses set up their scores. Midfield and Half Forward lines were overwhelmed, should've gone short on puckouts working through the lines with better ball into forwards from halfbacks rather than full back line. Guessing our fitness and conditioning weren't there to do that though.
We created a good few half goal chances, had we taken one or two the last 10 minutes would've been interesting. Hard to know where we stand after that, wouldn't be optimistic that we'll be back again next year. The bunch of u20s will have to improve a good bit for us to challenge next year.
i taught kilkenny were in a great possition when 6 points up after the 2nd goal , but as said above , the limerick line acted fast pushed up , they also went wide to the sideline as they were having no joy running down the center or through the lines
kilkenny got a lot right today but limerick are as good as the cody era in my opinion and that second half especially the last 20 was sensational , i could find very few faults today with kilkenny or Derick lyng
To be fair that's a poor comment. Not sure if it's being sarcastic but fogarty has been an unbelievable servant to the county for many years and is a super hurler. Yes, his inter county career is shortening but poor to be talking about one of our own like that. He was put in a position wing back that didn't suit his game. Full stop.
Our backs hurled as well as they could have. It was from 8-12 where it was lost. Losing blanchfield, Carey and browne took its toll but the main problem was midfield and half forwards. Too many poor performances here but lyng will see that. Fair play to Limerick. A serious outfit that can truly be compared to our best teams but we will rock on again next year and with the hopeful additions of the 3 above along with much needed competition in the forwards we will be a better force.
The likes of last year's u20 forwards will improve and challenge for positions next year.
Limerick pressed our short puck out in second half and forced us to go long into that wind. The ball sat up in that wind and their half backs ate it up. We couldn't get possession in middle third to even get good or bad ball into the full forward line. We got so much right today in the defence yet we were kind of toothless in second half. Not much could be done about it as the bench didn't do much.
I wonder is there a case for the over head pull to make a comeback? Regarding kyle hayes and byrnes under.puckouts
You pick ONE player to comment on when at least 6/7 were very poor, very inaccurate. nothing new really
What have i said that’s inaccurate?
Game probably swayed to limerick before half time, kk should have been 5 - 6 up but limerick took it to 3. It didnt matter but limerick just physically destroyed kk for the next 40 mins and outhurled them. Credit to kk, they are always there though, prob a few legends bowing out today.
Murphy never saved a shot,
Full back line excellent and reid and deegan in half back line.there after only cody and tj threatened trouble.mossy iis noo 11, billy ryan cant have anymore chances total passenger, donnelly to slow and mullen has to be in the forwards.moving fogarty our of midfield was a mistake as he isnt good enough to hurl in the half back line.we need a new midfield and 2 more fwds if you think cody, tj, mullen, and phelan are 4 of the 6
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