I need to replace a few double sockets, can anyone recommend a good brand, I am bamboozled by the choice on screwfix.RECI will be doing work but i cant contact him at the moment.
You could see a lot of small electronics having optional USB C power though if buildings were actually wired for it - plenty use >100W
Although, other than countries using the enormous UK plugs we use here, most have a neat 2-pin mains for small devices e.g. CEE 7/16 (the flat 2.5amp Europlug) in Europe or NEMA 1-15 in the US, Canada & Japan, and the 2-pin version of the Aussi/NZ/Chinese plug, so I doubt it's all that relevant to manufacturers to be bothered as there are already very neat solutions in most other countries.
The fold up pin chargers that have appeared in this market in recent years have also resolved a lot of the issues of having to carry bulky devices.
I was getting my immmersion (Sink/Bath) switch replaced a few years ago and liked the design of the Hager/Sollysta switches and sockets so I've been gradually rolling out their light switches and switched wall sockets to replace old kit.
They say their USB socket (A+C) uses <150 mW in standby, what do the experts think? It's the one at the link below..
https://www.hager.ie/products-e-catalogue/wiring-accessories/sollysta/white-moulded/white-moulded-sockets/wmss82-usbac/104135.htm
However, I think until USB C (at full power output) becomes ubiquitous I wouldn't really be all that fussed about installing the sockets in a domestic setting. It's just expensive and also the electronics providing the USB C power are usually not isolatable with a switch, so are effectively connected 24/7.
I don't know if common-or-garden wall sockets will ever offer full 100w or even 240w USB3, it's risky in a situation where you don't control the power delivery - ie the cable. I've had bad cables melt here just on 5v @ 2A. I'd like to think that devices which need >100w will require an approved power supply with a tethered (hardwired) cable. I know that the power configuration is controlled by the receiving device (the USB PD protocol) and that it should be able to identify a voltage sag due to a bad cable... but... I dunno.
But I could be wrong.
Commercial is a no brainer,people need USB sockets on the move ,airports, buses at work etc
Domestic you may prefer separates for expensive equipment
Polarity is actually are enforced in France and Belgium now - live on the right, neutral on the left. Only the flat 2.5amp plugs used on small appliances are reversible. However, I still wouldn't trust older wiring to be polarised though and EU harmonised regs don't require it anyway as 'Schuko' used in most countries is fully reversible. Sure even here you can reverse a 'figure of 8' connector without any issue. All their MCBs are DP though.
However, I was just more stunned at the price of French electrical accessories. They don't allow the general CEE 7 (schuko) stuff. It has to be French with the earth pin and polarisation and shutters. A lot of ppl seemed to think it was just protectionist lobbying by Legrand and Schneider Electrique.
I'd be more concerned about some of the crappier smart sockets and so on that are appearing. It could also get worse in years to come due to UK drift from CE standards or end up with poor customs enforcement and I would assume Ireland will be unable to enforce anti-grey market regs. A lot will depend on whether the UK goes for tight regs or free market laissez faire (burn the red tape etc etc)
There are plenty of dodgy looking electronic devices - USB sockets, smart sockets, data over mains or wifi etc that are being made to quite dubious standards and are widely available online and being integrated into people's fixed wiring.
They pretty much can ignore the L and N wiring in sockets over there as the plugs are reversible anyway, so there is no polarisation in that respect.
They make sense in places like airports and cafes where people might be arriving with chargers from other countries with different pins. It certainly saves on adaptors.
Most USB C wall plates cannot provide full power for a laptop for example or even do rapid charging for a mobile, so it's still not that much use for a lot of devices.
If you consider say my MacBook Pro adaptor it can deliver: 4.7 amps at 20.5V, or 3amps at 15V, 9V or 5.2V.
An MK USB C Socket is limited to 5.2V at 3amps.
For example, if you want to get a quick charge boost for a phone, you're much better off plugging in an original Apple or Samsung charger etc, rather than using a 3rd party USB-C socket and USB A is way too slow.
One of the most sensible designs I've seen (despite all the moaning about Apple and proprietary connectors on the end of iPhones) is Apple's USB-C laptop charger.
It's a compact power USB-C brick, with a 'duck head' connector on the mains side. So you can snap on a UK/Ireland plug, a continental CEE 7 plug, a US NEMA plug, Aussi plug, Chinese plug etc etc or just push in any IEC 'figure of 8' power cord. Extremely handy when travelling and those heads fit all of their chargers.
I would argue it's a matter of choice on domestic sockets which I assume is what we are dicussing
Same safety principle applies to high quality separate chargers as high quality USB sockets
The separates can also easily upgrade with the new charging technologies
Basic USB outlets will be prevalent lots of places , commercial etc for obvious reasons
Doesn't mean theres a need to fit them on domestic work for high value items with separate chargers
I just don't use poor quality USB chargers.
The other issue is that most of those sockets are USB-A which is rapidly becoming obsolete and replaced by USB-C
Speaking of which, I was shocked (pardon the pun) at the cost of some of those in France. I was upgrading a few around a holiday home. €59 for a USB-C + single socket with a decent bit of design from Legrand and over 60 quid for a double plate with no USB.
That yoke was almost €60 ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrJEHMgXHi8 (they've a flat plate that covers the recess until you push in a plug but even so .. pricy! I thought Irish prices were steep...)
EU fixed cable colours are completely ignored over there too, which is surprising. Still red (Live) + blue + green/yellow.
Using high quality USB sockets such as MK reduces fire risk IMHO. There is no end of articles on the internet about fires caused by poor quality USB chargers. We don’t use plug in USB chargers in our home for that reason.
The link above illustrates the safety features built in to the high quality MK USB outlets.
I have noticed that most new homes have USB outlets fitted as standard I believe this is now the norm and homes / coffee shops / offices / airports etc. without these will soon be less common. There is always some resistance to change but eventually everyone gets onboard. Move with the times or get left behind.
A bit like cheap tyres. Simple devices but something you’re probably better off not skimping on..
I don’t see the point of incorporating USB chargers anyway. It doesn’t add much convenience.
Simple and solid!
Cheap sockets don't give much trouble in normal use ime , no doubt mk is better quality
I'm not sold on the idea of electronics incorporated into sockets
Issues with testing them and then of course the ever changing charging technology. There's probably different opinions on them
I’ve both MK and more designer ones by Legrand and both are excellent. I wouldn’t use cheap sockets. It’s just not worth it and for the white simple plastic ones, MK Logic is consistently good quality.
I haven't seen any that do that, have a few brand's, mostly BG and MK (MK are the better quality and an easier install, but haven't had any issues with BG yet, going on 4-5 years).
Everything bar the plugs I buy is MK.
I doubt any USB sockets will switch off USB at socket
Doesn't seem logical to me switching on/off appliance with usb. If it did they would already be manufactured that way
I’m not so sure, see this part:
On second thoughts this is just to prevent an open neutral on the LV outlets.
Could mean you disconnect the socket before testing
Don't know why anyone would bother with them
Interesting. Seems that the USB isn't isolated by the switches in this range, but I'm confused by this part:
I think that the text is talking about the modular USB charger (hotel type install jobbie) and not the integrated USB device within the socket... not sure. Can't see a way to isolate the USB part otherwise...
Very nice:
https://buildings.honeywell.com/content/dam/hbtbt/en/documents/document-lists/mk-electric/gb_brochures/MK-USB-Charging-Solutions-brochure_UKMK446-0321-EN.pdf
I think i realized my mistake on auto detect as i was posting 😁
And further on the off-topic topic of USB sockets... 😁
...some of the cheaper brands are really shyte.
They can Kirk, but you still have to power that circuitry, and that becomes the vampire load. 0.05W is what some units draw when in low-power mode.
@2011, MK do have a new range of sockets called the Connected Power series and they are specifically targeted at large commercial installations where monitoring and management at the socket is required and these do feature an internal isolation switch for the internal electronics for use during periodic testing. Efixx did a pres on them a couple of weeks ago:
But as for general USB sockets, I'm not sure that they have the isolation at-the-switch built-in.
I'd hazard a guess they're separate
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense switching off USB with appliance
You'd have people switching appliance back on to use the USB
I thought electronics these days could auto detect a load or cable even
You are making me doubt myself now! I will test the isolation theory out when I get back home. I’m abroad at the moment. Will update you on this thread.
ok thanks, must look at them. It wasnt an option on MK when i installed some 3 years back.
MK
Which brands offer this @2011, I've yet to see any which allow the USB to be isolated by the physical switch?
They don’t consume any power when switched off using the switch on the socket outlet.
Aside from incorporating electronics into a socket outlet which I think is a bad idea
I haven't seen too many issues with cheap sockets
The thing I've never been able to find out about USB sockets is how much power they use when not in use. A small amount surely, but not nothing either.
Also the idea of having a wee bit of no-name Chinese electronics on a 32A MCB does not fill me with joy.
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