DART+ (DART Expansion)

Sam Russell · 10-07-2023 06:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120827720#Comment_120827720

It was the Iriish Times readers who objected to losing the car parking spaces and parts on the front gardens - nothing to do with Merrion Gates. It was part of a cycling infrastructure project.

The temporary cycle path trial along Strand Road was also scuppered by a judge who said he did not believe it was temporary. Again, parking and traffic was the problem. Ironically, the Strand Road was closed to traffic one way for several months while a new water main was installed. That went ahead with no particular problems. The extra traffic on Merrion Road managed - I assume some evaporated - as it does.

Safehands · 10-07-2023 12:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819784#Comment_120819784

Wow, Close all the stations in "rougher" areas. Make the DART less convenient for thousands of commuters. Sounds like progress all right!

goingnowhere · 10-07-2023 01:19PM

There is something to be said to close Howth Junction and Kilbarrack and to build a new station between them with 4 platforms to allow trains waiting to cross to Howth to be overtaken.

That boat sailed in the 80's sadly

Safehands · 10-07-2023 01:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606764#Comment_120606764

It will massively disincentivise people from using the DART from Howth. Why not run all Howth trains to the terminal platforms in Connolly, and let people change, if they want, from there? They could use the Maynooth trains and the Drogheda trains for their onward journeys. All the infrastructure is already there. The Loop Line Bridge, with its signalling issues, would not be affected. The Howth DART, entering Connolly, would not interfere with platforms 5, 6 or 7. So a Maynooth or Hazelhatch DART could come in at the same time. Leave the Howth Service at 20 minute intervals, so the 4 level crossings around Sutton would not be impacted. The signalling will have to be upgraded anyway. A spacing of 3 minutes from Howth Junction to Connolly should be installed. It would be far easier, and less disruptive to everyone, including Irish Rail, than unloading 150 to 200 people every 10 minutes in Howth Junction.

GerardKeating · 10-07-2023 03:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829938#Comment_120829938

But the problem is section between Connolly and HJ, not south of Connolly.

Safehands · 10-07-2023 04:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830460#Comment_120830460

Yes, but the Loop Line Bridge affects the smooth running of the trains from HJ to Connolly. Currently they have to wait for platforms to become clear. If the trains terminated on platform 4 then they could run straight in without holding up trains behind them, as well as trains from Maynooth.

Pete_Cavan · 10-07-2023 04:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830756#Comment_120830756

The issue is not the LLB, it is the need for trains to cross tracks to/from the Howth branch which creates operational difficulties. Terminating trains at Connolly does nothing to address the problem.

Safehands · 10-07-2023 08:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830802#Comment_120830802

How frequent do you think the trains from Drogheda / Malahide are going to be?

L1011 · 10-07-2023 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831952#Comment_120831952

As frequent as the current Howth services are.

Any Howth direct services will require blocking manoeuvres, and a Connolly-Howth service would introduce even more blocking manoeuvres than there are currently.

dublincc2 · 10-07-2023 11:58PM

Long-term, could there ever be a prospect of a DART extension to Dundalk? It would give the opportunity to reopen the stations at Dunleer and Castlebellingham and, dependent on future population numbers and development, the Ardee line.

GerardKeating · 11-07-2023 08:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833052#Comment_120833052

The extra distance between Drogheda and Dundalk should make it a no-brainer.

AngryLips · 11-07-2023 08:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833469#Comment_120833469

How much of an impediment would the single track layout of the boyne bridge be? They're not even extending Dart to the northern parts of Drogheda, such is the shortsightedness.

Safehands · 11-07-2023 09:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120832343#Comment_120832343

The Connolly to Howth route works quite well at the moment. If this "Shuttle" service were introduced, with a frequency of 10 minutes, there would be massive problems with the level crossings at Sutton and Baldoyle Rd. Currently, the gates come down approximately 3 minutes before the DART arrives. I believe that is a safety issue. If the train frequency from Howth was increased to every 10 minutes, then the gates would be closed for six minutes in every 10 and that would not be sustainable. Transferring passengers at Howth Junction, with as you say, a frequency of 20 minutes for the Drogheda DARTS, would not work for those passengers either. That frequency would have to be increased to every 10 minutes. Even then, with new signalling, running a Howth DART to Connolly should not be an issue. Larger cities, like London have much greater frequencies. The signalling technology is there, so why can't we do it here? And by the way, the "blocking manoeuvres" at the moment in HJ are not really causing a problem. The current scheduling is a far greater problem, especially with the Enterprise service.

LXFlyer · 11-07-2023 10:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833739#Comment_120833739

The DART will be running at frequencies of every 10 mins to Malahide with additional Dundalk and enterprise trains on top of those. That’s why the Howth branch is being converted to a shuttle.

As part of DART+ Coastal North, the engineers have already stated that the level crossings will be able to cope on the branch.

pakb1ue · 11-07-2023 10:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833478#Comment_120833478

I never knew the bridge was single track but low and behold 500m of it is single track.

I'm guessing there wouldn't be enough room to run overhead cable and a pantograph judging by these photos

Looking at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-mtVLEdcYE there doesn't seem to be much clearance at all.

EDIT: After a bit of reading I found out the bridge was double tracked until the 1930s when the steel structure was replaced. You can see how the original design differs from the current one here https://i0.wp.com/www.archiseek.com/wp-content/gallery/ireland-louth/0117.jpg

Safehands · 11-07-2023 12:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833784#Comment_120833784

The level crossings will be closed to accommodate a train, in each direction, every 10 minutes. The 3 minute time will have to be reduced to be able to avoid huge traffic congestion. Plus, why would Dundalk commuter trains need to come as far as Dublin with this new system? Surely the Dundalk passengers, apart from those on the enterprise, can be accommodated on the DART from Drogheda.

Safehands · 11-07-2023 12:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833839#Comment_120833839

It's a beautiful bridge, no doubt about it. But don't forget, the DARTS to Drogheda will be able to run on batteries. They won't need the pantograph going across that bridge.

Ronald Binge Redux · 11-07-2023 06:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829310#Comment_120829310

Dudes in Dubes socking Heino need that sort of validation!!

LXFlyer · 11-07-2023 07:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835356#Comment_120835356

I’m not sure people commuting from Dundalk would be too keen on having to change to a train that stopped at every single station from Drogheda to Connolly.

Safehands · 11-07-2023 08:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838392#Comment_120838392

The current commuters stop at all stations to Malahide, some still stop at Portmarnock, Clongriffin and HJ. They can use the Enterprise if they want a non stop journey.

spacetweek · 11-07-2023 09:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120827401#Comment_120827401

What? That plan has been dead in the water for many years. South Dublin ~~assholes~~ residents are very good at ensuring that we can't have nice things.

dublincc2 · 12-07-2023 01:49AM

In a united Ireland scenario, extend the Dundalk commuter service to Newry. This would allow Newry to develop as a commuter town for both Dublin and Belfast. It would also allow for the reopening of the Mountpleasant and Adavoyle stations.

LXFlyer · 12-07-2023 06:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839912#Comment_120839912

There already is a commuter train between Newry and Dublin.

Sam Russell · 12-07-2023 10:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838993#Comment_120838993

That plan just 'happened' to include the closure of Merrion Gates - its main object was to provide cycling infrastructure.

They could have still gone ahead with the closure, but the funding for it was to be the cycling infrastructure rather than Irish Rail.

The same lobby group scuppered the temporary cycling infrastructure on Strand Road because it closed one lane for cars. Ironically, Irish Water closed it anyway while they put in a mains water pipe. Not a peep out of that lobby.

p_haugh · 12-07-2023 10:46AM

It's highly likely that this scheme is folded into the plans for Dart+ South Costal, given how they want to close most (if not all) of the level crossings along that stretch.

Now whether or not that will fly with the locals, that's a whole other story!

marno21 · 12-07-2023 11:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840670#Comment_120840670

That’ll be interesting to say the least

Sam Russell · 12-07-2023 12:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840670#Comment_120840670

I live quite close to Merrion Gates and the church that will provide the car park.

I have issues with the design - in that I would favour an underpass than a bridge as it will have little visual impact on the area - but it is a brilliant solution. Also, the junction with the Merrion Road needs work.

This will also impact the Sydney Parade crossing - perhaps allowing its closure (but that will, of course, have a local impact).

tom1ie · 12-07-2023 02:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838993#Comment_120838993

As a south dublin resident I refute that claim.

GerardKeating · 12-07-2023 05:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840994#Comment_120840994

How would residents react to something like this level crossing removal project project in Australia.

dublinman1990 · 12-07-2023 06:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842587#Comment_120842587

Nope. I wouldn't like that idea at all. I would leave the track gradient at Merrion Gates unchanged.

If you were considering building an overpass to replace the railway tracks in that part of South Dublin. It would inconvenience thousands of rail passengers who would use the DART during the weekday peak time hours. The bus services would not be able to cope with the increased pressure of coping with demands of rail passengers who would not be able to use the DART on that section of track for a temporary basis.

I don't think the NTA would even consider anything about this proposal either. They want to focus on providing the highest amount of frequency for as cheap as possible. However they have the costs written down for projects in that part of South Dublin like the newly proposed DART stations at Dún Laoghaire, Woodbrook, Bray & Greystones. The costs for the extra turnback facility in Dún Laoghaire is also covered in this project.

DART+ (DART Expansion)

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