Major humanitarian disaster on the occupied left bank with the Russians doing nothing to help. Crazy to see the Ukrainians helping out here.
jesus...what that poor kid mustve gone through...how many more thousands like her there must be...
Trying to avoid vids and stories of animals in distress but there are so many all over the place it's impossible, whether this was deliberately blown by the Russians or failed through Russian incompetence, I say fu*k you and all who support you, all you have brought to the world is suffering, pain and death. For hates sake I would spit my last breath at thee.
I was not claiming that it was either accurate or truthful, but for sure, it was 100% on the ball what they shared with Ukraine from day one. ( and continue to this day) Actually Russia is much more dependable for news, there's no If, I or But about it, they amongst the greatest shower of liars on the planet, And everyone knows it, and acts accordingly. If they say it happened, it didn't and that's all the confirmation you will need.
Discussion on the dam near Kyiv
Alex Kokcharov on Twitter: "In #Russia, Telegram channel of Wagner PMC is urging conducting missile strikes on the dam of the #Kyiv reservoir, which is upstream from the capital of Ukraine, home to some 3 million people now. Russia is conducting a barbaric and genocidal war. https://t.co/QMDCIS6lSn" / Twitter
The only people with an in depth understanding of the current status of units up to armies of the Russian forces, of the big and small issues in their ministry of Defence is US military intelligence.
...
Not really a concern if missiles cannot breach the dam.
Since when did Dam Busting become a war crime? And what does this mean for the still existing 617 Squadron of the RAF, originally formed specifically for the purposes of destroying major dams and whose motto remains, as a consequence, "Apres moi le deluge" (recommended by the mild-mannered stutterer King George VI)?
I only ask.
Don't get me wrong. The Russians are the bad guys in this conflict, the invasion of Ukraine is unjustified and the Ukrainians are wholly within their rights to repel them. But if we're going to call a particular action a war crime, then all such actions are war crimes. Are they not?
Maybe some will point out that blowing up dams in time of conflict only became a war crime AFTER the Second World War. Well that's fine then. But it still doesn't allow us to glorify yesterday's dam busters while damning contemporary ones. After all George Berkeley, whose name has just been scrubbed from the main library in Trinity College wasn't doing anything illegal at the time when he owned slaves. But we're not at all comfortable today paying homage to people who approved of nasty things back then just because there was no law against them.
Of course if anyone finds out that the commander of the operation had a pet whose name was an unfortunate racial epithet, then we'll KNOW he was a bad guy.
1949.
The lads from 1943 are in the clear.
Phew.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/0607/1387793-nova-kakhovka-dam-destruction-ukraine-russia-military-analysis/
This is a good article too about it.
Yeah. But we'll never be able to name a library after them!
The only way this dam was blown so completely open, was by demolition charges placed by military engineers who knew exactly what they were doing, with all the time in the World to do it.
And so only the force in control of the site could manage it. And so it was the Russians who blew up the dam.
And they should face terrible military consequences for doing so.
Most terrible.
Life is not a nice simple black & white situation, you mention 617 squadron, well the British have statues of good ole Ollie Cromwell all over the place his actions here weren't exactly pc or how about the British Parachute Regiment, respected heroes across the water but they wouldn't be too popular in Derry.
Lots of people try to make everything a black or white issue, usually to make some silly political statement but that just aint the way the world works.
Of course it isn't. It's much more complex than that. When WE blow up dams and kill thousands of people directly in the process it's heroism backed up by technical genius and heroic participants. When THEY do it, it's a war crime.
PS Seanmadradubh? Maybe that should have been the call sign for the destruction of the Mohne dam. (But of course a stuffed shirt like Gibson would never have been able to pronounce it) **** it was, then.
By your "we" I'm assuming you're British, I'm not and my thoughts on the morality, and a discussion regarding the actions, of all the parties in ww2 are a little too complicated for a forum like this.
British? Moi?
Certainly not. I was using the generic we. As in "us and them".
Sorry, never heard an Irish person using "we" to refer to one side in WW2 before, it just seems weird.
Just assumed he meant the west, NATO, the EU, those of us unilaterally in opposition to Russia, in this thread. I know what he meant though, like the famous canadian dambusters of old and their bouncing bombs.
The engineering details of how they pulled it off is interesting as hell yes, but over a thousand or so civilians died (many of them Russian slave labor) definitely something which ought to be regarded as a war crime, and dams have only become more frequent and larger.
Head of Wagner Dr. Panik seems to be suggesting UAF have broken through in three places.
USA bombed a dam in Syria with bunker busters, then went on TV and said they didn't. The task force behind it even lied to other members of the coalition, basically tried to keep the bombing "off books". Coalition investigators had to piece through B-52 flight logs to find out what happened.
The Islamic State, the Syrian government and Russia blamed the United States, but the dam was on the U.S. military’s “no-strike list” of protected civilian sites and the commander of the U.S. offensive at the time, then-Lt. Gen. Stephen J. Townsend, said allegations of U.S. involvement were based on “crazy reporting.”
“The Tabqa Dam is not a coalition target,” he declared emphatically two days after the blasts.
I point this out not to engage in whattaboutery, but as a reminder that the people who carried out the Syria dam bombing and intended to keep it secret are the same people advising Ukraine right now. In many cases literally the same people; it was only a few years ago. They will be operating from the same playbook and devising the same kind of schemes. Full of hubris, sure that their schemes will not be traced back to them.
Ukraine are on record saying they struck the dam gates with several HIMARs missiles as a test of how much it would take to breach it. And would "hold off" destroying it completely until a later date. USA were in the loop on that attack. It's like the Nordstream pipeline - they said they would do it, they did it, and then people were like 'oh yeah it must have been the Russians'.
What's the deal, did getting phosphorous rained on him on his way out of Bakhmut turn him and Wagner into the Fifth Column?
Has to be a massive concern now. The Russian's are capable of anything at this stage.
Would you happen to have a source for your claims in the last paragraph about Ukraine striking the dam gates with HIMARs as a test of how much it would take to breach it? And also that they planned to destroy it at a later date.
Wapo. Gifted link:
https://wapo.st/3qrLh6V
Russia had to arm and feed its forces via three crossings: the Antonovsky Bridge, the Antonovsky railway bridge and the Nova Kakhovka dam, part of a hydroelectric facility with a road running on top of it.
Russian troops patrol in May at the Nova Kakhovka dam, on the Dnieper River in the Kherson region. The dam and two other river crossings were key targets in the offensive. (AP)
The two bridges were targeted with U.S.-supplied M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems — or HIMARS launchers, which have a range of 50 miles — and were quickly rendered impassable.
“There were moments when we turned off their supply lines completely, and they still managed to build crossings,” Kovalchuk said. “They managed to replenish ammunition. … It was very difficult.”
Kovalchuk considered flooding the river. The Ukrainians, he said, even conducted a test strike with a HIMARS launcher on one of the floodgates at the Nova Kakhovka dam, making three holes in the metal to see if the Dnieper’s water could be raised enough to stymie Russian crossings but not flood nearby villages.
The test was a success, Kovalchuk said, but the step remained a last resort. He held off.
Let’s assume that there is NO WAR or a SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION. But some nutcase with a very big gripe against the people downstream from the dam and he decided to teach them a very big lesson. So he bombed the dam and it caused massive devestation like what has just happened. What kind of a crime ,if any, would you call it . In both scenarios - the one laid out above and what has been just carried out have the same end result eg damage to property, both directly and indirectly, loss of income, stress , maybe loss of life, etc, etc. so Madd Finn what do you think?
Some terrible images and video coming out of Kherson. May god help the citizens living there.
Tokmak is taking some pounding this evening
Reports of 30+ strikes on it.
7_PX1cVuaVA
This is a very bitter blow, Ukraine only has two Iris-T systems.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://we.vanillicon.com/v2/e050b53be62f0ae2404c620976170938.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w2.vanillicon.com/v2/23a17162c37eb6bc3dac0636b261afca.svg)
