More potential upside absolutely, and more potential downside.
Again, I'm not criticising Crowley, but if he's not picked at 22 (or 10 if Sexton not fit) come the RWC, there is going to be an absolute sh1tstorm directed at Farrell, but we absolutely haven't seen enough to say he's definitely earned it, nor will we see anything of what Farrell sees in the next two months.
I know Farrell the coach and Farrell the player are considerably different entities, but Crowley's absolute extermination of Harry Byrne in the game winning drive will have surely drawn a proud nod from the former Wigan captain.
Yeah, hard to argue with any of that. Only thing is that Byrne regained the #2 spot by the 6N, so Crowley would probably still need to get a run of performances together in the warmups to get that spot back by September. I have every confidence he will though. Whatever was holding him back against Australia, he'll have a lot more confidence in himself now.
He's doing a good job of showing that the areas Byrne is strongest in are no weak points for himself anyway!
Even with a smaller sample size, there’s less risk putting him in the 22 jersey than as a starter.
I think there’s more upside to Crowley there than Ross Byrne.
Rog, a coach known for his honesty, has named-checked the maul as what won them the game.
More down to how much it sapped Leinster forwards rathe than the advances they made on the maul themselves.
In counter argument, Byrne was excellent for nearly all of the season and only really fell flat in the LAR game (keeping in mind he didn't play against Munster). Not as eye-catching, for sure, but very good in a very different way.
By contrast, the sample size for Crowley being brilliant is very, very small.
That's not a criticism of Crowley, it's just how things are. Farrell won't be picking anyone on the basis of two or three games. If Crowley spends the next 3 months proving that he is the player you describe, then he'll get past Byrne handy enough.
Along with playing low risk rugby and holding on to the ball. Poor kicking from Leinster in clearing their lines. Poor decision making by JGP in the last 10 minutes. The maul may have been an element in them winning but it certainly wasn’t the reason that they won.
And the maul is what allowed LAR back into the game.
Both things can be true.
Half the thickness of a rugby upright cost Leinster the game.
Another thing about Crowley that may be in his favour against Byrne is that he's performed behind a pack that wouldn't be as on top as Leinster's are throughout the season. I don't think Ireland will have that level of dominance against the better sides and that makes a little bit nervous about Byrne. Neither are the finished article though, hanging the whole thing on Sexton may come back to bite us, hopefully not.
I've been watching the last few games of Munster's season over the last week or 2 and I think there's a really strong case for Crowley to get the 22 jersey for the RWC, assuming Sexton is fit.
He plays flatter and offers a stronger running threat than Ross Byrne, he's more versatile enabling Farrell to get a centre into the 23 jersey which we know he likes, and he's brought real direction to Munster's attack.
Throw in some brilliant clutch kicking, and kicking from hand and the case gets stronger.
He was genuinely brilliant during that run-in, in the biggest and most high-pressured games of his career thus far.
Get him in, Andy.
Maradona was as much a playmaker as chopper harris ;)
Cool. Just know that you are arguing against 99% of the rugby world when it comes to the definition of a playmaker. But I'm sure you'll convince us all that you are right.
I think ROG said in the aftermath that the maul won them the game, tho, but fair enough.
I’d agree there’s little bearing to Ireland alright. I think back to the SA game in the AI’s; I think SA had something like 7 mauls in the first half and didn’t get much purchase whereas we got 1 and scored our try.
Argentina generally could because it was one of few times they had their players all together for any extended period not the same for any of the 6N/tri nations
They had a lot of mauls. Every lineout in our 22 was a guaranteed maul because Leinster never competed.
I don't have the stats to hand - and honestly I have zero intention of ever looking up anything about the game again - but I don't recall the maul getting points on the board that often. We definitely turned over a couple and several were stopped.
Nonetheless with respect to Ireland, none of that happens post Ryan departing if POM and Beirne are there. Leinster and Ireland are indeed quite similar, but they are not synonymous.
Leinster defended the LAR maul quite well, but attacking zero lineouts meant they just didn't have to worry about that aspect at all.
I dunno, I think I recall stats going around after the final of LAR making nearly 60m from their maul?
I’d have to go back to check, but I remember a lot of criticism was aimed at them for not competing almost because not competing didn’t repel LAR much anyways.
Agree. I know some teams get hot come the WC. Argentina being perennial masters at it, but generally form holds through. Good teams are ones with bedded in systems, that have been performing consistently.
And I will argue!
I believe it was used versus England in 2014 at Twickenham.
The talk about the gameplay being figured out is being said by people who refuse to swallow their pride and admit that this idea of Ireland peaking to early that they've been banging on about for 2 years now looks like it isn't going to materialise.
yeah but the turnover itself generally isnt what 'creates' (for want of a better explanation) the score, there is usually more involved
you could argue its defensive playmaking but i wouldnt have heard it used in this way that much either tbh
They definitely tried it against England as well in this year's 6N but it was well read (Jack Willis I think) who shut the move down with a great tackle right on the gainline.
It wasn't that one either!
Must have used it loads of times so.
I meant what the opposition should do sorry. I read it again and that wasn’t clear at all.
We should want as many lineouts as possible.
Nope, Leinster sliced through them, the cover got back but not before Kearney released Healy for the try.
In fairness, a move last seen 11 years previously by a different team, we can probably call that 'new'
Squidge showed where it came from. Eddie Jones did it first, with the Brumbies I think. It’s just variations on a theme. We tried it 3 other times in the 6N with subtle variations but it didn’t come off.
Looks similar, but the one I am talking about Kearney was tackled on the gain line. Same move, defence read it though.
This one?
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