Crowley has proven it at a high level and is now the number 1 fit Irish outhalf. That is the difference between today and more experimental selections ahead of November internationals.
Undisputed number 1 Irish team?
Sure.
Yeah, look I think the Leinster management made some bad decisions in that game - I would have had him on for Byrne after 55 mins or so.
James Hume - the guy you suggested should have been selected instead of him - when was his last good game?
Comparing Crowley to Osborne is pretty outrageous. One has actually proven it in big games. That used to kind of mean something.
The squad is what it is. Farrell is backing the players that have performed well when it matters, at least for him.
Time will tell if a slightly expanded (~45) initial squad would have been the more pragmatic move.
For e.g., by my count, he has left out 8 players who started in and won the league final this year; the sort of context you can't replicate in camp. If it all goes great in France, that won't matter an iota. But it's the sort of thing that can guide the narrative in a post-mortem following an underwhelming tournament.
I’d select Hume based on his ceiling and trust he’d get back to it in camp. If you can select osborne coming off a long injury, you can do the same with bad form from an excellent player.
Lol
Has anyone actually said there's a leinster bias? Saying its easier to get selected if you play for leinster is not the same thing.
It makes sense that if there isn't much between two players then you pick the guys who play together for their club.
Blade and casey is a toss up but if you are selecting Crowley then it makes sense to pick Casey.
I don't actually think there is anything wrong with the squad. Frawley versatility gets him into the training squad. If he makes the final salad then he'll have earned it. Earls/ stockdales reputation gets them into the training squad. If they make the final squad they'll have earned it.
The one that's really didn't make sense to me is kilcoyne over loughman.
Yes.
What big games did osborne play in?
Yeah, there's just been c. 2 pages worth of posts here from @ulsteru20s claiming Leinster bias. Maybe read the thread?
Yea, but if you frame it as blind bias, its easier to argue against.
The way this thread is going, it's gonna be a long summer on the Rugby forum 😅
I said there was bias for a good reason. Which is the same as what he is saying phrased differently.
Read the thread.
Farrell picked Crowley for the November squad exclusively based on what he saw on the emerging Ireland tour.
Now you're **** all over him for doing the same thing again because the guy from your province missed out.
I'll say it again, sticking the boot in on your national team over Antoine Frisch is an odd life choice.
You don’t see a difference between november tests and a world cup?
Miss me with the sanctimonious crap.
Crowley is an OH, not sure why you're going on about Osbourne. Kinda funny you were using games against Toulouse in trumpeting Coombes virtues, but are now dismissing a SF against them when it comes to Frawley.
So, maybe then for the fourth time, I'll ask you to justify the selection of Dave Kilcoyne (over Jeremy Loughman), Kieran Treadwell (over Jean Kleyn), Keith Earls (over Shane Daly or Jordan Larmour), Jacob Stockdale (over Robert Baloucoune)?
Leinster bias isn't a factor there. Could it possibly be that despite what us uninformed fans think that Farrell thinks these guys are a better fit for his system, or likes what they bring to the squad, or has huge faith in what they've delivered for him previously?!
I talked about Crowley because someone directly compared them. Its like a handful of posts above.
Legacy or performance in camps last year. Also, you will notice that almost none of those even by your reckoning are picked over leinster players.
Why would leinster bias apply to picking between non leinster players.
Of course they are a better fit for the system. Playing in a similar system makes you a better fit.
I’m pretty sure i said that in my original comment.
If Ireland were playing next week, this would be the team in my opinion.
Porter
Sheehan
Bealham
Beirne
Henderson (assuming Ryan injured)
POM
VDF
Doris
JGP (by a whisker)
Crowley
Lowe
Ringrose
Aki (close with Henshaw)
Hansen
Keenan
Someone compared Crowley last Autumn where he was brought into the squad despite being 3rd choice at Munster to Osbourne now.
You responded by extolling all the experience that Crowley has now putting him further along the development path than Osbourne now.
I can't see Osbourne going to the rugby world cup. I would still consider him one for the future.
That said Farrell has consistently preferred high potential young players than limited older players who have found their ceilings on the edge of his squads.
I would not be surprised to see Osbourne getting capped in a world cup warm up. There is often one warmup where a lot of players outside the squad get gametime.
I'd be the same side, but would have Bealham over Furlong.
Crowley is at 10 assuming Sexton is still injured obviously as well.
I’m not sure what’s hard to understand about this.
Picking either of them for autumn internationals makes sense because they are developmental players.
Picking Crowley now makes sense as he is shown in the last several weeks that he is an asset in high pressure games. Osborne has been injured in that time.
Okay, so you think Andy Farrell only makes egregious selections when it comes to Leinster players you deem unworthy, but all of these selections of guys who've been long term injured in some cases, in awful form in other cases, or way down the depth chart for their provinces are fine?
Do you not think there's a smidgen of a chance that Andy Farrell just picks the player he thinks is best, or gives the team the best chance to win?
I think almost all his elite players are from leinster, and if there is any kind of tiebreaker for a new entry to his squad he will go towards players who know the system. ie from leinster.
I never said that was a bad idea. I’m just saying it’s pretty obviously true.
I edited it. Was under mistaken impression Bealham was still injured.
There will be injuries, and perhaps we will see at least one bolter in the final squad.
Osborne and Crowley had similar career trajectories until March. Both were thrown in at the deep end for the respective provinces and excelled.
Leinster lost Henshaw and Ngatai at the same time so Osborne filled in at 12, a position he had never played before. His performances in the Champions Cup got him nominated in the initial Player of the Tournament listings.
They're quite similar in a lot of regards. It's no wonder Farrell rates them highly. Takes a lot of bottle for a young player to be thrust into a position of responsibility and perform well.
Out of interest.
Who was in with a genuine chance but lost out due to Leinster bias?
I don't see a single player who fits the bill.
Kleyn might be the closest but he's lost out to Treadwell, not McCarthy.
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