I know Brussels, but the thing is there are numerous people in western society who are bad actors and seek to deflect from the causes of this war, the correct blame apportionment and discuss anything accept Russia. Nothing that I have said in the 13 points I made is unreasonable, or unfair to Russia. No reparations, no nuclear disarmament, no punishments, but plenty of rules to follow to get back amoung the fair players on the world stage. The suggestions about Police forces, elections, media, presidential terms would make Russia a far better place for Russians.
So why not simply confront the bad actors in the west with re4asonable far terms and let them argue against them. Whether they are obtainable ort not is not relevant. It exposes the intentions and bad faith of those who argue against them.
I cannot remember who said it a few posts back, but someone said the end of this war will not be peace but it will go from hot to cold and continue that way. Honestly I think that poster is correct, but the country that will suffer the most from that will be Russia and not Ukraine.
I can see Ukraine retaking a lot of the lost territory, but perhaps not all. I am not soothsayer so I do not know how much. There will not be a peace because the the Russian government have no interest in it nor is it in the interest of the Russian government (as distinct from the Russian people). The result will be Russia in a 20 or 30 year permanent sever sanction crisis and the Chinese wolf growing on the doorstep.
For the sake of the argument, let's imagine that what @paul71 posted were adopted as Ukraine's starting position on negotiations.
As we can see from their actions, Russia's starting position in negotiations are basically going to be to ask for Zelensky's head on a pike and Ukraine to become a demilitarised vassal nation of Russia or at the very least, for them to keep the land they currently occupy with Ukraine agreeing to give up their ability to defend the rest of their sovereign territory (whether by an agreement not to join NATO or via demilitarisation).
The positions are wildly apart but that's nothing new in the beginning of any negotiation. Compromise is, after all, usually found in the middle ground.
There's one huge elephant in the room of a problem though: Putin and his regime have proven that their signature on any treaty isn't worth the ink it's written in. They broke the Budapest Memorandum, they've broken the Minsk Agreements, they're in violation of the New Start treaty.
So, unless there's regime change in Russia (i.e. point number one of Paul's proposals), there's no way for negotiations to even begin since one party has repeatedly proven themselves to act in bad faith during previous negotiations. They simply can't be trusted to stick to a negotiated settlement. President Zelenskyy has said as much himself: he'll negotiate with Russia but not with Vladimir Putin or his representatives.
So, can we stop the stupid calls for a negotiated settlement please? They're as unrealistic as the chances of the UAF not finding more mass graves as they liberate their territory.
When / If Putin is defenestrated/poisoned/hung from a lamppost in Red Square/stabbed/made to drink his special tea or makes a "good will gesture" to the world and swallows a bullet, then - and only then - will such calls for negotiations be a worthwhile suggestion.
A succinct summery.
I will take up the baton, so you can get off the fence yourself. Russia should absolutely be held to account for their war crimes and punished for them, as should other countries who have engaged in them. This is not whataboutism, its facts. The poster is quite right to point this out, it does not make him or her pro Russian to say so. Do you agree that any country engaging in war crimes regardless of your politics ideology should be held to account, or is there extenuating circumstances or mitigation in that scenario. As I have seen in the past posters who condemn Russia but will laugh off Israeli aggression. This is the height of hypocrisy. Do you agree Paul71?
I have no interest in discussing Isreal in this thread, it is not about Isreal. You are engaging in whataboutism.
So, debate or get off the soapbox. Goodbye.
Was the 5th not a building in Ryazan? or maybe I'm mixing that up with some other event.
For the record can you point to any posters who "condemn Russia but will laugh off Israeli aggression"? This isn't the first time I have seen this accusation but I haven't actually seen anyone do it. I'd imagine most posters who are sympathetic to the plight of Ukraine do so because they are disgusted by aggressive bullies and as such are likely also sympathetic toward the plight of Palestinians.
Effective, but undisciplined. The report also observes that the EW troops are making no attempts at deconfliction, so whilst they are having an effect on Ukrainian systems, they are also having an effect on their own, and even damaging some of their own EW effectiveness.
If such a fate were to befall Putin it probably wouldn't be a starting point for negotiations - it could end up being the opposite. How this war will evolve will depend at least as much on what happens in Moscow as it does on the battlefields in Ukraine. Putin is likely to be challenged, particularly if the war continues to proceed unfavourably for Russia. However, what hope is there for negotiations the when all of his would-be challengers are extremists who want victory, not peace?
Insane? maybe, but sometimes insane methods are needed when dealing with insane people, and Putin merits that description, IMHO. As to bringing it to that point, that's currently an ongoing process, and will succeed, hopefully. Because if it doesn't, then we are headed for more of the same, and possibly even with Putin's successor. Russia has to be stopped, once and for all. Doesn't matter what it took to end ww2. Different time, different war, but unless Putin is stopped, then WW3 is a distinct possibility. And that may well be the war to end all wars.
Yes, you are right. The bombings took place in Buynaksk, Moscow and Volgodonsk. The one in Ryazan was the bomb the FSB were caught red handed planting.
the Baba Yaga is not amused 🤣
Unfortunately you cannot isolate this event without looking at geopolitics and all the death and suffering that comes with it imo ...
I have made my position clear in previous posts, so you can kindly desist with this untrue allegation. I will state it once again ,so you can have no excuse to carry on with this canard that I am trying to deflect or absolve Russia, The Russian Government should be held to account for its war crimes. Putin needs to lose decisively for any real negotiations to take place. The valid point the original poster was making is that any country engaging in war crimes should be held to account too. Do you agree or not? I fail to see how acknowledging this is somehow giving the Russian Goverment a free pass or deflecting.
350 billion has been seized from the Russians. They are trying to release that money to help Ukraine.
peace negotiations shouldnt even be thought about until the russian invaders are all back in russia,back behind the original Ukraine borders...
Perhaps, but it would be the removal of a red-line issue that currently prohibits negotiations. I did also mention "regime change" rather than simply removing Putin in a previous post. True, most of his potential successors are currently supportive of the special military operation, however, that could change quickly after Putin's removal since, at present, having any other point of view is currently a criminal offence in Russia.
Maybe the Russian' (0r at least most of them ) don't want to kill every Ukrainian, but for sure Putin is capable of doing it and every Russian too if when the time comes that he is threatened by them. He has already sent many thousand Russians to their deaths in Ukraine, and he will have no hesitation in ordering the military to attack any protesters who come on the streets in Russian Cities.
Ultimately no one knows exactly how the war will end , or what it'll take to end it ..
My plan or Pauls plan , or your plan are pie in the sky , and are as worthy of debate as any other .. and individual parts sound grand but getting agreement on them or enforcing them is another matter ..
On the face of it , Russia is an unenviable position, short on troops,no reserves , supply line issues , morale issues , starting to get through their modern equipment..
The ukrainians seem to have the upper hand , modern equiped brigades in reserve , and a major offensive in the planning . Maybe .
But that may not be how it pans out , and each side probably would accept something to spin as a win to end things ,
Autumn will tell a lot .
I have a no stage sid anything untrue. I have stated this thread and discussion is about Russia. I have accused you of whataboutism and deflection. All of those things are true.
You still will not discuss Russia in Ukraine. You to discuss something else so you can avoid that truth. You are participating in debate only deflection/
Ukraine getting a great ROI on those drone boats.
The only Z that counts
I just don't understand russian (sorry, I can't even give the pronoun a capital 'R') geo-political strategy . If you speak to any Central European, from the Baltics to Poland to the Czech Repubilc and now Ukraine their hate for the Russians is absolutely vitriolic. Their hate is passed down through the generations. My brother-in-law is married to a Latvian girl and I've worked with Slovaks and Poles who weren't even born when the Iron Curtain came down and their hate for russians is absolute. In invading the Ukraine they have created another 35 million + russophobes and in essence created a natural border of hate from the Arctic circle to the Mediterranean.
im no medical type expert but he looks the picture of health to me,id say hes been busy planning a nice surprise for the russians 👍️
I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, but to me, it seems more and more like a cult, rather than a nation state. The absolute obedience to their leader, the shunning and othering of "outsiders", and the belief that they alone are "the chosen people", all these are staples of every major cult. This cult-like indoctrination would also explain the extreme levels of loyalty amongst Russians abroad. They may live among the "heathens" in the west, and even take their money, but they know that they are "the chosen ones". As such, there's no real endgame in sight, as the Russian government, and significant chunks of the Russian population, they simply don't see anyone outside of Russia as equals, or even worth considering.
In many ways, this is similar to the indoctrination during the 3rd Reich, although I don't recall it ever getting to this extreme degree, though not for lack of trying.
I heard an interesting thing on a podcast earlier. Apparently the UAF really like to get right-hand drive vehicles from abroad for their front-lines. That is because they confuse Russian snipers who often aim for the passenger seat in error. The Ukrainians will often place dummies in that seat for this very purpose. (This was an aside in a story about Japan sending a shipment of 100 military vehicles to Ukraine.)
China envoy on their idea of a peace deal, ceasefire and Russia retains it's new territories
Lol
fcuk off China
The operative word here is 'new', which means they did not own them previously. Hmmm...
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