Teaching about Gender

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634104#Comment_120634104

I could link many articles to refute the ones above.

https://www.city-journal.org/article/a-new-low

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-american-academy-of-pediatrics-dubious-transgender-science-jack-turban-research-social-contagion-gender-dysphoria-puberty-blockers-uk-11660732791

It has not been debunked in any way that is completely untrue. That study that finds it debunked is written by the prominent gender affirming Trans right activist Jack Turban. Can you account for the 4000% increase in referrals to tavistock in less than 8 years? Can you account for the hundreds of detransitioners who speak about the influence of social media and peer groups where friends come out as trans together? Can you honestly say that social contagion has nothing to do with the huge increase in trans childrten?

Lets look at Jack Turbans study then that you have refenced here its built entirely on the premise that there are 1.2 boys for every 1 girl identifying astrans in the cited questionnaries study from 2017 and 2019 and there is no increase in girls identifying nor is there an increase in trans identyfing overall. He uses the fact that the number of girls actually decreased in 2019 as a rejection of the social contagion theory, theses are questionaires from a youth risk behaviour study. Now lets look at what has happened in Tavistock in England which has referrals from ourselves here in ireland

Tavistock the gender identity clinic has published its figures for referrals

In 2009/10 32 girls and 40 boys referred to the clinic fast forward to

2018/19 1740 girls and 624 boys

by 2019/20 - 1891 girls were referred and 720 boys were referred to the clinic

80% of all referrals were between the ages of 12 -17

There have been whistle blower doctor writng to the AAP about the flaws in Turbans study and the numbers of referrals on the ground with youth trans for years now but to no avail.

The tavistock figures directly reject the Turban study above and also vindicate Lisa Littmans study in 2018 both are critiqued here look at this article and apply the figures from Tavistock to the criticism and you can see how captured the media are to gender ideology.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/social-contagion-isnt-causing-youths-transgender-study-finds-rcna41392

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636257#Comment_120636257

Gender is something you are? Explain how brain washing an entire generation of children form the age of 5 into believing men can actually become biological women is in any way based in science or reality and the benefit that has for our children? We already teach our children to treat everybody with respect and kindness we dont have to teach them idelogical driven faleshoods.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637056#Comment_120637056

I suppose it doesn't come within my subject remit so I don't encounter it as much as biology, sphe, cspe or religion teachers.

If I were to talk about it then I'd take the socratic approach and ask all the questions. I'd be very hesitant in saying "this is the way it is" as we live in a contextual world.

Also if you go into the area of psychology or quoting studies then you'll need to be careful who your audience is (same as anorexia, suicide etc).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637555#Comment_120637555

Is it a feeling they just know about

Based on the stories I've read/watched/herd about, yes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637636#Comment_120637636

And would you agree that feelings can change? How does gender affirmation allow a child to navigate their childhood with the guidance and common sense of an adult who knows that these feelings can change and shouldnt be affirmed ingrained and set on a medical pathway for life that they cannot possibly comprehensd the implications of?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637629#Comment_120637629

Gender is something you are?

Yes. If you're male, you're male. It's not a case of you do male Tuesdays and Fridays for a few hours in the afternoon and every second Saturday.

Explain how brain washing an entire generation of children form the age of 5 into believing men can actually become biological women is in any way based in science or reality and the benefit that has for our children?

I never actually made this claim, so not sure why you're asking and take this as you will, but:

Explain how brain washing an entire generation of children form the age of 5 into believing men can actually become biological women

It's not and they can't...

and the benefit that has for our children?

... depends on the children, but I would imagine it would benefit the ones who are trans by making them happier (although I'm not trans, so it is a guess)

We already teach our children to treat everybody with respect and kindness

Judging by the amount of homophobic bullying being called out in the wake of the Navan incident, no we do not.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what you mean by "ideaological driven falsehoods" - are you saying transpeople don't exist? Transpeople have no right to exist? Or they do exist, but only to enhance an ideology?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637643#Comment_120637643

Yes; and that's a loaded question because 1) who said feelings shouldn't be affirmed?; and 2) I never commented on kids transitioning.

We're talking about educating them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637655#Comment_120637655

TENI

Belong to

and every other Trans right activist group in ireland and England and the US are advocating for the gender affirming model of care for children.

If you tell small children that boys and girls can be born in the wrong body then because they lack the critical thinking of adults they will believe you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637820#Comment_120637820

Simple questions, yes or no (but feel free to say more if you want).

Do you want children to get the knowledge about the gender spectrum in a controlled manner from a teacher in school?, Or
Do you want children to get the knowledge from unconfirmed internet sources, exposing them to propaganda before they can form an informed opinion?

Can you answer these questions or not?

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638300#Comment_120638300

They're not simple questions. You teach in a context , it's not as straightforward as making microchips.

What are teachers learning about "The Gender Spectrum" anyway? What actual inservices authorised by the NCCA on "The Gender Spectrum" are they all going to?

'Controller Manner ' doesn't really mean anything either. I could promote paganism in a controlled manner to students either, does that make the information I'm imparting valid. Is it my place as a teacher to advocate for pagans. Especially when we can see from this thread everybody is getting their information from many many different sources, and that's just to confirm their own position, is it ok just to go into a classroom and go with that approach (do our own research) and teach, 'but in a controlled manner'?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633718#Comment_120633718

"It's not scaremongering on the side of those not wanting children to transition. It's child safeguarding. How on earth could a child of 5-12 possibly understand the implications of socially transitioning then starting puberty blockers and later having gender reassignment surgery? How on earth would affirming a young child's belief as a responsible adult in their lives not solidify that belief."

Yes this above - first principle: Do no harm. Time evens many bumps along the road.

Too many people with other agendas trying to influence the life paths of children growing up and where growing is the important concept.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638605#Comment_120638605

I could promote paganism in a controlled manner to students either, does that make the information I'm imparting valid. Is it my place as a teacher to advocate for pagans.

When you say "promote", do you mean teaching or actually promoting? And are you implying that teachers are gong to be "promoting" transgenderism to kids the same way you mean 'promote paganism' in this example?

Now I may have you wrong here, but this sounds like you think 'controlled manner' means actively encouraging people to do something

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638771#Comment_120638771

Same question to the poster above: are you under the impression that teaching is going to be replaced by promotion? That gender affirmation of a potentially transkid is going to happen in the classroom? That pubery blockers and surgery are going to be on the curriculum?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637629#Comment_120637629

Nobody has actually made the claim that men can become biological women though.

'Controller Manner ' doesn't really mean anything either. I could promote paganism in a controlled manner to students either, does that make the information I'm imparting valid.

My questions are simple, you are just trying to derail the discussion. Teaching about something is not the same as promoting it.

Your analogy regarding paganism is a good one. I hope that religion classes in schools include the history aspect of all world religions, and describe ancient religious practices, such as shamanism or paganism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638771#Comment_120638771

The approach you have of "do no harm" is not correct though because your ideology does in fact harm children who are genuinely trans.

Your ideology is harmful by pretending to trans children that they don't exist and pretending that don't know in any way know their own minds. Its harmful by forcing a child to go through life pretending they are something they are not, pretending their life experiences are not real, denying them their own agency and identity and forcing them to go through puberty when it may be against their wishes.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639364#Comment_120639364

I've an idea - have an explanatory session laying out the pros and cons for the parents of every primary school.

Take a vote on whether these parents wish to have their children exposed to these matters.

Remember parents are the primary guardians and educators of their children,

Accept the result that a very large majority will choose to let sleeping dogs lie, do no harm, let things work out in time if needed. End of.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639466#Comment_120639466

As far as I know, it works the other way around. If a parent does not want their child to take a particular class, they can ask the school to excuse the child from the class.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633071#Comment_120633071

I never said it was. I explained a few times that a huge amount of people are going the trans route that should not including men with this fetish.

Bobtheman

If there are genuinely trans people then the issue should not be dealt with in the teenage years because it's a volatile time. A lot of trans kids will end up gay if left or simply grow out of it.

I accept for the genuinely trans kids going through puberty might be hell but a total ban on puberty blockers is a logical thing. They are kids and there is no absolute test to be 100 % sure

We also have kids in mental distress who will drift into it.

As far as I can tell its a psychological question. Psychology is a recent enough science and is litterd with cul de sacs. It's bible of diagnosis is terribly flawed.

Look at repressed memory syndrome or split personality syndrome.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639466#Comment_120639466

How does that help the kids who need the information?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640086#Comment_120640086

How many times have you got to be told that there is no connection between gender and sexuality??#

(And don;t waste a post asking for scientific proof - no one's bothered to wasting their time proving if because it's blatantly obvious to anyone who knows what the terms actually mean)

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638784#Comment_120638784

That's a good question and underlies my point.

I know there's one religion syllabus or should I say specification!. But the teaching and promotion ( and demotion ) of certain/all/no religions takes place on a daily basis depending on the school and teacher.

So who oversees the teachers to ensure they are teaching and not promoting or otherwise? Where are the guidelines on the actual teaching practice being taught in 3rd Level?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638300#Comment_120638300

What would you teach children about the gender spectrum? What science backs up the gender spectrum? How many genders are there? Can a biological male become a biological female? Can a woman have a penis? How do you regulate the information thats provided to children in school? Where does the this information come from? how did the NCCA decide that gender ideology needs to be taught in schools? Who is lobbying for this to be taught and is their stance that children should be affirmed if they beleive they are born in the wrong body? At what point does someone know they are born in the wrong body? What age is appropiate to talk about social contagion and gender ideology so that children understand about it? Would we bring in a trans person to class and allow them to speak and educate the children? ANd if we bring in a trans person should we bring a person who has detransitioned too? Should we have a seperate module all about detransitioners? If i say to a child who lacks the life experience and critical thinking skills of adult that boys can have a girl brain then I'm lying to them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640062#Comment_120640062

What? So you are saying lots of sexual fetishists are pretending to be trans?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640086#Comment_120640086

Oh right OK

Real trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist because gay people or mentally ill people might say they are trans. How incredibly insulting to trans people, gay people and people with mental ill health.

Your post makes no sense AT ALL.

"if there are genuinely trans people"

There are genuinely trans people

Trans people exist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639466#Comment_120639466

Again your ideology of pretending trans children don't exist and forcing trans children to not be trans is harmful. It's laughable to keep on about "do no harm"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640261#Comment_120640261

So many questions, it is admirable that you are that inquisitive! You should apply for a job in the Dept of Education and create a program, perhaps?

Personally, I would just add some items to the sex ed program, explaining that some people may feel that they were born in the opposite gender or feel as they do not belong to a single gender and that this is ok and nothing to be alarmed about. More info on request, if someone asks or needs support. That's more or less it.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640098#Comment_120640098

Are you a teacher? Do you have any children yourself? Or are you just here with an agenda?

I ask, as you must surely know and I repeat that parents are the primary guardians and educators of their children. End of.

Parents make decisions daily for children, more so when they are young and perhaps less in teenage years. Parents are responsible for their children and make decisions in what they consider their child's best interests. They are less interested in how other people think they should raise their children, as it's really none of their business at the end of the day.

That's why you might inform parents and let them decide collectively how such matters should be dealt with in school.

And you know what, if as a parent you don't like that decision and wish to do things differently, then you take the child out of school and educate them yourself. Lots do it.