This is disgraceful.
A 95 year old woman with dementia was tazered by police because she was not responding to police commands to put down a steak knife she had in her hand.
She fractured her skull when she fell and her family do not believe she will survive, the police constable who deployed the tazer has been suspended
Not being factious, but at 95 can it be called early onset dementia? Or is that the term used to describe the stage it's in?
Unlikely, has anyone said she was using the knife in a threatening manner? Her family claim she was making toast.
This is looking atrocious for NSW police.
Looks more like police brutality and a cover up TBH.
Yes, there is several stages of dementia.
According to her family she had signs of early dementia, perfectly able to communicate but sometimes forgetful.
She didn't have signs of being a super strong knife smith who could stab 2 arm police officers, or if she did, they didn't say.
She is not investigating the incident, nor deterring the outcome of the investigation. This has been pointed out numerous times to you, I'm really not sure why you're struggling to grasp that.
Positions have called for the investigation to be taken out of police hands entirely. But it's also likely that Federal Police officers will be called in. Regardless, the Commissioner is not the one investigate and determining if the actions were warranted.
She is not investigating the incident
Why is she listening to the audio of the incident so?
You'd have to ask her that. Maybe she wanted certain information, but didn't feel the need to view the full extent. I'm not claiming to know her reasons.
But I'm really not sure what your point it. People outside the investigative team will have seen the video, and/or heard the audio. The fact she hard the audio, and will probably now watch the footage due to media pressure, doesn't mean she is suddenly on the ground investigating.
If the lady passes away, I'd wonder if it could be escalated to a homicide investigation.
You'd have to ask her that.
She has already been asked.
She hasn't watched the video because she wants to remain objective. She doesn't want any single piece of evidence tainting her view, but listening to is okay apparently.
She will probably watch it once all the rest of evidence is in and she has to make a decision on it.
The fact she hard the audio, and will probably now watch the footage due to media pressure, doesn't mean she is suddenly on the ground investigating
Again, no one suggested she should be on the ground investigating.
It's pretty obvious why she hasn't watched it or at least claimed she hasn't watched it.
She doesn't want to be questioned about it.
Car Crash interview above.
It does look bad for NSW police for sure. It'll be hard to justify unless there's stuff we don't know about.
Her family say she was making toast but all the reports are that she had a serrated steak knife. I wouldn't like to get stabbed/slashed with one but they are a far cry from Rambo's knife.
It'll be hard to have a cover-up given that there's body camera footage and there's probably witnesses from the nursing home too. I suppose it all depends on how 'independent' the investigation is.
it is outrageous that this happened. What needed to be done was for all to walk away. However maybe other residents were in immediate danger, but I’m quite sure the police could have safely got the piece of cutlery from her, if the had any sort of training in these situations. Then call in the doctor to see if medication could be changed, keep her away from other residents and don’t allow residents access to steak knives. Suitable food could subsequently be presented to her so as she wouldn’t have need of a knife.
People with certain forms of dementia can have profound personality changes, and be unpredictable, but the nursing home is supposed to be there to manage situations.
I used a steak knife to butter some bread the other morning, all the butter knifes were in the dish washer.
The Commissioner is coming out with all sorts of nonsense why she hasn't watched the video, I think it's fairly safe to say it's probably damning.
Hopefully the family's request to watch it is granted.
In fact I think they have offered to watch it with The Commissioner.
Be interesting to see what bullshít that is met with.
yeah, back off and try to de-escalate.
i'm well aware, thanks. they are very few in a position to lecture me on what a dementia patient is capable of.
Looks bad for police, but looks terrible for the care home employees that called police!
Seems like an overreaction on everyone's part.
But sure that makes no sense , you reckon the care staff called the police because she was buttering toast? Didn't threaten anyone?
95 on a walking frame. no need to be tasered.
Where has she been asked? I can't see it in that interview, only the question why she hasn't watched the video. Which is not what you asked above.
Can you highlight where she has answered that? Quite the failure is that think that was some sort of gotcha. Instead only illustrating that you can't follow your own posts.
You literally claimed that was her job earlier. That was the premise hat I disagree with with. lol
She is the head cop, it his her literal job to investigate potential criminality.
I pointed out that she would not be on the investigation team. Most likely somebody two levels below her would be running the investigation. The interview you posts confirm that you are mistaken.
I can’t interfere in that investigation and it will be improper for me to add pressure to the investigations to get those answers
She did not have early onset dementia, which refers to the persons age.
Correct. Early onset dementia is develop before the age of 65. She had some other form of dementia.
Australians love a form, and I'm confident that the inspection and regulatory regime for Australian residential homes includes developing and documenting policies for various contingencies (which will be quite detailed) and verifying that appropriate training has been delivered. Now, whether this home complied with all that, and whether they did in fact follow their policies on this occasion, is something we have no information about. But that is certainly the standard against which they will be assessed.
If you watched the video you would know.
You are being contrary for the sake of it, your bad faith posting is a complete time sink.
I don't reckon anything, I'm not her familiy.
But right now it looks like police brutality and some sort of cobbled cover up.
Opposition politicians are now crawling all over it.
You engaged tabloid sensationalism in bringing up the commissioner. Whether she watches a video is not the issue here. It's the tasering of a 95 year old. I pointing out the sensationalism, as did other posters. That is not bad faith posting.
Nor is pointing out inaccurate claims. Like for example when you mistakenly said early onset dementia. You made a mistake. But pointing out inaccurate statements cannot be considered bad faith. I cases like there accuracy and truth are very important.
Pretty lazy response. I have watched it. If doesn't say what you claimed. If that's the best response, I'll take as acknowledging you are wrong and move on.
You engaged tabloid sensationalism in bringing up the commissioner.
Or what reasonable people would call reality.
Her bizarre behaviour in the aftermath of this has reached parliament.
Let me guess, but but The Guardian. 🙄
I have watched it.
Never said you didn't.
You think it's reality to make the issue about the commissioner, and not solely about the victim?
Where does that article back up your nonsense above?
Police have ruled out releasing the bodycam footage publicly, with police commissioner, Karen Webb, saying on Monday that Nowland’s family did not want it released.
But screw the family wishes, amirite?
The Greens will also call for an independent investigation into the incident and a parliamentary inquiry into police powers and police responses when dealing with vulnerable people.
An independent investigation? Wow, I'm shocked...well no, I'm not all, seeing's that's precisely what I told you should happen in my very first reply. And also point out politicos were calling for it above. 🙄
She should have no part in the investigation into the incident. It should be an independent investigation.
have called for the investigation to be taken out of police hands entirely. But it's also likely that Federal Police officers will be called in
I agree with you that it looks like that. I just think it's highly unlikely she didn't threaten care staff or police. She possibly started to butter toast though.
There has been no suggestion she threatened anyone with the knife. So not highly unlikely at all.
Mr Thaler earlier said that Mrs Nowland's family had been under the belief that their beloved oldest member could simply have been making toast in one of the kitchens beforehand.
'Her family is just incredulous (at what happened),' he said.
The family believe the facility itself was not properly staffed to care for patients with dementia.
Yallambee Lodge is a 40-bed facility designed for people who can no longer look after themselves in their own homes, according to the council's website.
Mr Thaler believed there may have been just two carers on duty at 4am for 40 patients in five houses and there was 'a lack of training and for some of these workers, English is not their first language, they may have panicked'.
Details of the cops history are also immerging.
Looks very like over stretched staff were confused and panicked the poor lady was unlucky that one of the cops that responded had a history of aggression.
Either way there is absolute no excuse how the Commissioner is handling the aftermath.
This is today.
We don’t know why the aged-care facility called police in the first place
She really is see no evil hear evil, isn't she?
🤷♂️
Looks like an almighty F up.
Being reported now that the police officer concerned has been charged with recklessly causing grievous bodily harm, assault occasioning actual bodily harm and common assault. Also that his suspension from duty is now suspension without pay.
(It's on the Guardian Australia live feed. I'm not linking to it because, well, it's a live feed and it will very shortly be showing different items. But no doubt there'll be a linkable report before long.)
late to this discussion, but you'd wonder why police were called over a 95 year old with a knife - however, my cousin used to be a manager in a centre for kids in australia (and they were dealing with some very disturbed kids) and he was telling me that they much preferred hiring staff from ireland, UK, etc., than aussies. they seemed to be more robust, able to deal with stressful situations the job would throw up.
he was telling me that he was once able to claim on expenses for buying a knife off a kid - as in, someone pulled a knife on him and the quickest way to defuse the situation (and wrong-foot the wielder of the knife) was 'nice knife! can i buy it?'
you'd think a staff member faced with a not very mobile 95 year old would have been able to handle the situation better.
Maybe they didn't want to be legally responsible for what happened if they intervened. Maybe she was difficult in the past or her family was difficult to deal with/litigious types. It's a minefield.
RIP
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