And yet the UK said otherwise but what would the RAF know about it like they are leading it
I don't know what you're still trying to defend there, as they're not youngsters with no flight experience. Have at it.
Seems the vice Air Marshall doesn't agree with that opinion either, ands it's not the first time,it been Said they will be training new pilots for the new Ukrainian airforce
Gonna side with the USAF on this one sorry.
No surprise there
Bakhmut last night
Can I ask why it's important to you to try and propagate the argument that they won't be available to Ukraine until a year out or more? Even when it is so clearly incongruent with what military officials and corroborated documents show?
It's not like the Russians will read the thread and let their guard down.
What corroborated documents show?
We had the same discussion months ago with the usual suspects the UK are F16s really and how many f16s are the UK giving Ukraine since they don't operate them,but F16s, again a previous article I linked on here said exactly what the article I just shared that literally said within the next two years and we're going to train new pilots for new aircraft,
Nothing in the two articles on Bahrain or various unmanned sources had said anything about the RAF providing the training,
But yet the usual suspects know better
Isn't that a UN war crime?
That will only make support for Ukraine flow faster.
Countries are willing to send f16s to Ukraine ...and now that the US has giving its blessing they will.... They can start training pilots for 4 months and of they go
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/basic-f-16-training-for-ukrainian-pilots-could-take-just-four-months
Internal USAF assessment that training of these pre-trained Ukraine pilots will take about 4 months. Yahoo! corroborated.
Yes, Zelenskyy accused the Russians of this very thing, recently.
During my time in Afghanistan, I was in Ghor province, and you have two high ranges to climb to get there, with a valley and two passes in between. There's no road as such, just a track, and in parts, definitely not for the faint-hearted. Many's the time I've passed broken down trucks stopped on the side of the road. On one occasion, the truck was stopped and they had the truck transmission out on the side of the road, and were working on it, while the family sat around on blankets, under an umbrella drinking tea. Two days later on my way back, the truck was fixed and gone. The most common trucks there were old Russian ex military MAZ ones, belching black smoke, making horrible noises, but by God, could they handle the Mountainous Afghan roads! They would load them nearly a mtr above the height of the creels, (and these creels extended out over the cab), Put the passengers on top of that, inc. the animals, and set off. The accidents of course were horrendous.
Yahoo = corroborated documents ,
Vs an identified UK air vice Marshall who explained who ,when , and what for .
.
Yahoo that's actually funny
Depends on if they are targeting the civilian population or placing the civilian population at excessive risk. At this point, I'd be surprised if there is much civilian population left
Yes, for 'youngsters with no piloting experience' according to your own sources.
Your "former RAF Commander" shouldn't have a nose turned up at them, they obviosuly have the experience to give advice here but that doesn't make them the be all and end all here. It doesn't make sense to write off every other estimation of training time for this man's take.
Darth Putin has it sussed - Ukrainians will get the fighter jets it needs. Slower than desired but death by a thousand cuts for the Russian military operation.
I'm honestly scarlet for you at this stage lol
Yes as I said building for the future not a few weeks
where??
Considering the RAF is providing the training in their flight schools I think he's better qualified over anyone on here,
Bahrain receiving f16s equals proof Ukraine are getting them
considering the americans design the thing and own the production of it and they were in the US, not the UK, doing the pilot evaluation, on US simulators etc. I think they'd know better than the RAF in this circumstance.
Dispels any preconceived notion they wont get any because they are non nato.
F16s have always been exported to non Nato countries,
Yes it's made by America and others under license, but it's the British RAF training the pilots ,the evaluation in America involved 2 pilots in simulators not actually learning to fly F16s from scratch..
right, the pilots are not being trained from scratch at all, they're seasoned pilots transferring their skills to new machinery. So the RAF ret. commentors take for 2 years of training for young novices doesn't apply to the time frame. Therefore there is still standing to reports that F16s could be operational by the UAF within a matter of as short as 4-6 months. No reason to disagree that the first wave of novice replacement pilots, after the air veterans are trained on the F16, would be closer to the timeframe that commenter provided.
The Ukrainian pilots don't need to master dog fighting. Outside the first few week's of the war this is irrelevant. They need to learn how to take off, fire a missile from miles back, launch flares and land.
Considering it's missile launching planes they need and not dog fighters is F16 still the best option?
After they get these and the Abrams later this year what reasonable weapons can the West even give to Ukraine? Obviously more of the same but it seems all the boxes are nearly ticket.
They'll never get nukes, large warships or submarines obviously but what other conventional weapons could they get?
Bigger and longer range missiles. Though they probably just need more and more of what they are already getting.
UK haven't even the capacity to train their own pilots at that rate currently... from zero to Typhoon or F-35 is looking at 3-5 years at the moment.
But, as mentioned previously, with the return of simulators and 2 seater F-16's to Europe (RNLAF) and the addition of Draken into the mix, the UK could quite possible support a 2 year time frame, but wouldn't be able to provide it independently.
Ukrainian pilots wouldn't be working from scratch either. The conversion training taken on by Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian (Slovak?)pilots is actually a 6 month program to get to advanced level with the F-16. They are usually in the US though on and off for over a year, as the USAF warm them up on T-6's and T-38's before entering the 6 month F-16 program. What everyone is looking at is a "Lite" version of this program for Ukraine. How much can be stripped out though is the big question...
"They'll never get nukes, large warships or submarines obviously but what other conventional weapons could they get?"
Maybe some attack helicopters like the Apache might be of use?
If we accept the F-16s are coming, how big a difference will they make?
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