And if they don't .
So far nobody has said that they are planning to send any F16s to Ukraine, not the Dutch,poles ,Danes and Norwegians, Germany don't have them neither do france , Italy nobody has committed
Not even a we will send ours it other countries send there's why ,
From RTE news now:
Mr Biden told G7 leaders that decisions on when, how many and who will provide the jets, built by Lockheed Martin, will be made in the coming months while training is under way.
The training will be conducted in Europe.
It's now practically certain that Ukraine will receive F-16s. You'd want to be an awful eejit to think otherwise at this stage.
Yanks Are the ones deciding if other countries can send f16's ..Now that they don't object, the Dutch and other countries can go ahead
I think people have a romantaised view on Ukrainian pilots jumping into an aircraft they have never flown, operated and become maverick from top gun
Stuck in my head now
God it was so bad.
Hahahahahah well played sir
They aren't trying to become Top Guns per se, they're trying to get whatever will fly and shoot back into the combat airspace. They are not on a 12+ month timeframe. These limitations are butting with one another, culminating in expedited training time. That's all we really know.
You still have to learn every detail about the aircraft, from the basics of Flight to everything else from emergency procedures to weapons systems,
There is a reason it takes so long to qualify on western aircraft, and that's before you even look at the maintenance and spare supplies that have to be in place along with any necessary infrastructure needed too ,that all has to happen long before anyone set foot inside a cockpit,
I'm suggesting among other things that they aren't necessarily training on the normal, 'peacetime' schedule for training. Not spending weekends with the family etc.
Am I missing the 12 weeks part?
Article repeatedly states 4 months.
It also mentions some of the parts that are being cut out such as refueling mid flight which isn't an issue here. I feel like that was a more appropriate response to the carrier certification point. Sure your answer was technically correct but missed the spirit that the trainers were picking and choosing what are the most vital parts for the Ukrainians to learn now which you seem too happy to leave out.
I've seen some great Videos of them doing truck and bus Tyre repairs and retreading with the most basic of hand tools, tyres with steel wire exposed and repaired and back on a heavy truck at a roadside, when normal joes here in the west would have binned the tyre and charged a fortune to replace all 4
F16s pilots don't Generally do carrier ops,
It wouldn't make sense given them a quarter of the training of the training other pilots would receive,If anything they would be putting pilots and Aircraft at risk
They are a remarkable people.....if it can be bored, milled, ground, cut, welded etc. if they cant repair it they will make a new one, and it will work. All in a workshop on the side of the road with very basic equipment. I once saw a truck mounter generator in action, and climbed up to have a closer look at the engine driving the generator. After cleaning away several layers of grime and debris, the manufacturers name became visible. It was an ancient Rolls Royce Engine. I must have a look for the pics I took.
The Less Enfield was pretty powerful weapon in its day too. Effective range 550 yds, Maximum range 3'000 yds ( Wiki) Even at the 3'000 yd limit, I would not like to be the one stopping it.
Don’t know much about that 12 months qualification under normal circumstances but I assume that under normal circumstances the length of time is not a constraint to learning what’s needed for straight combat operations. They don’t need to be carrier certified, for example, there’s some training cut right there. Etc.
Claims of Ukrainans will only receive 12 +weeks of training on western aircraft,it currently takes 12 months+ to qualify on western Aircraft such as F16s and F18s
What they should be focused on is making their mig 29s and su30 more lethal with Western style weapons,the current tactics for 2 Ukrainian aircraft is to fly low and pop up to fire unguided rockets before turning fast and returning to base ,
The moment any Aircraft flys at altitude they will be targeted by Anti aircraft missles,
If you think the US system is a shambles Charlie, wait until you see Putins one...
I remember coming across a lee Enfield 303 stamped with markings and Enfield trades from ww1 that was bought from a Pakistani market but made in the 2000s in the same market
Nobody is getting f22s either America only and thats due to be replaced soon,I think you mean F35s it's likely looking that way,but even at that most countries will keep F16s even with F35s because the f16 is a pure fighter jet extremely effective in the dog fighting role , while F35 is an amazing Aircraft and only getting better,in the current climate the f16 has an edge even though Its moved to a more multirole strike aircraft over the years ,
One very big advantage the AK47 has over more complicated ( but technically superior) makes is its simplicity and cost. I mentioned previously how they were being manufactured in small sheds at the rear of ordinary houses in Pakistan Whole streets were in full production of not only AK47's but other small arms as well. So they are very cheap and easy to produce. and damn effective for what they do. During the Vietnam war, they took a very heavy toll on US troops. despite them having technically superior weapons. I would not underestimate them under any circumstances.
*F35s
I think the answer is pretty obvious: no NATO or EU countries are willing to give them F16s yet i.e. they'll happily transfer them when they have an order accepted for F22s...
To survive in Put9ns Russia, every man woman and child is corrupt. They have to be!
And the first one they caught, and who is spilling the beans on other, higher-up's, who will in turn spill even more beans and so on and so on. until it eventually reaches Putin himself !!!
I think Darth Putin is ahead of you here.
NATO now know that russia is toothless and are acting accordingly, their ICBM threat likely isn't credible either (or certainly not to the level that NATO feel worried about supplying offensive weapons to Ukraine). Remembering that NATO will never attack russia, it will be left to russia to implode itself in isolation. They know that what russia has been developing (Kinzhal, modern tanks and fighter jets) are capable of being stopped and russian corruption has stripped back everything else.
But again, you're arguing against the actions that have been taken by NATO countries that has occurred and implying vague threats that should have happened due to those occurrences. It's a mistake I see you making time and again, and I get you're trying to provide some balance, but the actions haven't been backing you up thus far.
Tell me who's giving them f16s then considering no nato or eu countries had said that they are planning or willing to them F16s, this was the case early in the year when the UK said they were looking to see what jets they could give them to ok we're not sending any jets to Ukraine but we will train them at our flight schools, so as it stands they will learn on either hawk trainers or typhoons which aren't F16s and they won't send typhoons because it would weaken their own defense capabilities.
We're hearing about training but zero commitments to send Western Jets,we had this previously with the secret A10 training program for Ukrainian pilots, which to turned out to be a Ukrainan business man flying lads to Vegas to fly on gaming PCs
Our ability to put 2 and 2 together is quiet weak. Why , in Gods name , would a number of countries be training UKr pilots to fly F16s’ if no country has any intention of providing same in the near future?
Sorry lads, but F-16's are off the table.
But that doesn't explain the ICBM threat, that threat has been there since the 1960s nothing about the current strategy has changed or been changed due to Ukraine,
The counter to some country launching ICBMS will involve other countries also launching their Own ICBMs in return,
We're not talking about an over hyped ballistic missile that's being the topic of numerous posts claiming it's an unstoppable super weapon, when it was repeatedly shown as nothing more than a Standard ballistic missile dropped from an aircraft,
Again, actions, if russian threats were credible, NATO making the amount of offensive equipment available to Ukraine would not be happening.
That was the worry at the start of the war/special operation, it's not a credible one anymore.
Reliably intercepting ICBMs - nullifying every MIRV - is beyond the capabilities of current missile defense systems.
The assumption is that interception capabilities will get better in the near future. Largely because USA pulled out of the ABM treaty 20 years ago and having been pouring money into ABM capabilities ever since.
That assumption is what is driving the development of hypersonic missiles and glide vehicles - real ones, not fake ones like Kinzhal. Everyone is working on them - Russia, China, India. Even North Korea is working on them. So by the time missile defense systems can defend current threats, there will be next-gen threats which go beyond those systems.
More prison cells are waiting for Russian rocket designers?
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