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EV's. More convenient than ICE cars?

n.d.os

I was passing a circle K on the way home from work today and noticed a lot of cars waiting to get petrol/diesel. Before owning an EV I would stop twice a week for petrol. Now I don't stop at all, well maybe for a packet of Rolos.

It made me think.

Are EVs more convenient and how many of those ICE owners would ever have to stop at all with an EV and a home charger?

When I meet people at public chargers, most of the time they are on a long trip or work on the road.

Are the public missing a trick here and being sold a narrative that EVs are a pain in the neck when actually they are very convenient and much less hassle than running an ICE car?

Is stopping for petrol a few times a month actually more convenient than a 30min stop at a public charger once in a blue moon?

I'm doing a family trip to Cork in July and the hotel has chargers in the carpark. What's the catch here for EV owners? As far as I can work out, car ownership is more convenient now than ever.

This is more of a discussion about powering your vehicle and convenience than anything else. I get that new cars and EVs in particular are expensive and not everyone is in a position to be forced into one by 2030.

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Redfox25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611837#Comment_120611837

The shape of the roof doesn't work along with the orientation of the house. We had 2 companies tell us they would put up panels but it wouldn't be worth while.

I'm holding out for the next move and just trying to get this house as efficient as I can in the meantime.

the_amazing_raisin

As an interesting thought exercise, I tried to calculate the time difference between charging an EV and an ICE for myself

For me, it's approximately 10 mins to the local petrol station, plus another 5 mins at least to fill the car and pay (could easily be 10 if there's a queue but let's make it easy). So let's say 15 mins every 2 weeks for an ICE car

I reckon it takes 30 seconds to plug or unplug the car and stow the cable. Maybe twice that for an untethered charger

If I was plugging in every day (I am at the moment to try and divert as much solar as possible) that'd be 14 mins, so 1 minute quicker than an ICE on average

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612233#Comment_120612233

Haha. Love it. I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to charge from solar. My home battery appears to be filling twice a day so at the moment I'm topping up one of the cars midday and doing a night-time charge using the night rate and full battery after 11pm. I still used about 10kwh of battery during the night charging on of the cars. I've exported 5.42 kwh so far today and the battery is full since around midday.

What I will say is, I'm saving a fortune vs petrol but I do quite a lot of mileage. Someone with an ICE and a short commute might think it's not worth it.

cgorzy

I would say No ICE car is more convenient. You can go where you want without considering in advance where you refuel. Can fill up in a short time and drive further when full. It will handle unusual scenarios, that do sometimes happen, better too. The above is true for almost everyone no matter where they live.

I don’t think it makes ICE better than EV and think this should be a minor consideration for most people.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612520#Comment_120612520

The big convenience drawback for me is not public chargers as I don't think many people use them anyway. Like i've said before, it's mostly and I use the word "mostly" cautiously, people working on the road or on their holidays.

I do worry sometimes if both of our EVs were out for the day and we arrived home with both cars very low on battery, that my wife might go into labor and we are stuck. Thank god the chances of this happening in my lifetime are 1000000/1

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612519#Comment_120612519

Most inverters will allow you to set a time to charge the battery from the grid. I've got mine set to charge to 40% from midnight to 3am and I'll do a timed boost on the Zappi at the same time so it doesn't drain the house battery

It covers any overnight charging I need at the moment and also means there's some useable power in the battery in case it's a cloudy day

Outside of that I just charge from excess using the Zappi during the day when I'm home

cgorzy

There is the question are EV’s more convenient and there is the question are EV’s more convenient for me? Generally, what I would consider the first question and also consider the question in the thread, I think the answer in no. If the only possible scenario where there is a need to travel outside range in a hurry is a 1000000/1 chance then it’s best not to worry about that at all and the answer may be Yes for me but can still be no in general.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611797#Comment_120611797

so you are already stopping for coffee en route, in such a scenario why would using that time at a fast charger be a big inconvenience ?

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612549#Comment_120612549

Or the charger stopped working, electricity was out, storm etc

patmahe

The biggest thing holding me back from an electric car is the urgent situation scenario. I'll give you an example of someone I know (and he himself told me this story so its unlikely to be embellished).

He bought an electric car and after a period of a month or so his wife became ill and was in hospital about 50 miles away, she needed to have an operation and it was scheduled. On the day of her operation he was called and asked to bring her medication to the hospital, so he set off for the hospital and when he was half way there realised he'd left one of her medications at home so had to double back. At this point he was under time pressure so had no time to charge the vehicle so had to set off again immediately. He spent the journey worrying about whether the car would make it or not and he couldn't drive too quickly or the car's range would drop, if he didn't make it, his wife's operation could not go ahead. In the end he just about made it but had to charge the car before he could head home while his kids came home from school and then he went back again that evening when his wife came out of surgery, having to charge the car that day was a major hassle for him. (99% of the time it was a non-issue)

I've had a similar situation myself over the past year or so with a sick parent, where I might have to drop everything and go at a moment's notice. If I had an electric car, the anxiety if the car was charging from a low starting point would be tough to take.

Don't get me wrong I like electric cars, but on the day you need to be somewhere in a hurry, or the day you have to make an unexpected detour and 20-30 minutes charging a car is more time than you have is the day that worries me (I guess because I have lived with that reality). I'm sure range issues will be fixed and I am fortunate enough to have room for a charger and private parking at home but these aren't options for everyone. I'm also aware that what I'm talking about here is an edge case, but on the day it matters, it might really matter.

I reckon I'm about 5 years out from switching to fully electric (its getting there but its not quite there yet for me).

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612963#Comment_120612963

its a valid scenario and one of the reasons our second car is ice or will be ice/hybrid for some time.. i realise some people dont have two cars but thats our mitigation..

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612826#Comment_120612826

Or the electricty stopped working and the petrol pumps don't work and you don't have enough fuel to get to the next petrol station ;)

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612963#Comment_120612963

Don't use a Nissan Leaf 24kWh as your main car is the lesson there 😉

So we're all EVs in my house, so any unforeseen trips are going to have to be handled by an EV

I've a very simple system for this, don't let the long range car (ID.4) drop below 50% of battery when parked at home

That's enough range to get to hospital, back again, hospital again, and chuck in a trip to the beach and maybe a scenic drive home

Maybe for others that'll need to be a bit more charge if they're further from a hospital

And before you say "I live 100km from hospital and therefore need 1000km of range", remember that the time sensitive part is getting to the hospital, if you need to stop for 15 mins to charge on the way home then so be it

patmahe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613192#Comment_120613192

Yep in fairness you have a point, and I think you are actually right it was a used Nissan Leaf ;) I'm aware much better electric cars do exist but they also tend to be quite expensive, my day to day car is a mid sized hatch but with all the toys to make it as nice a place to be day-to-day as possible, I bought second hand as I couldn't afford new and saw it as a better prospect at the time (2 years ago). I did seriously consider electric options at the time but only at the lower end of the market and only new as diminished range in older electric cars ruled them out in my book (again for now).

I do get what you are saying, about its the dash to the hospital that matters, yes it is, but trust me if you have done a dash to the hospital where a loved one is in a bad way, you are there for hours and need to get up for work the following morning, the last thing you want to think about on the way home is where is there a charging point.

Sounds like your set up suits you and works well, my setup suits me well for the moment so I don't think there's any right or wrong here, just horses for courses. In time I will go electric, just not today :)

Redfox25

Thats a very sound idea, not letting the battery drop below 50%, simple to do too.

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611797#Comment_120611797

A few questions.......

1) how much range do you think an EV is likely to have.....

2) in miles how long is that Coventry to Edinburgh trip.

3) how long do you think an EV going from Coventry to Edinburgh needs in terms of charging time....

cgorzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613192#Comment_120613192

Yes and you find this convenient but is it convenient for everyone to keep an EV charged to their required emergency range all the time? How big a convenience is home charging compared to buying fuel and does the added convenience for those that can have home charging outweigh the inconvenience for those who cannot? Is charging on the road inconvenient at all? I don’t see the EV coming out as more convenient overall but some do.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613118#Comment_120613118

Any decent forecourt retailer would have a back up generator, foolish if not, imagine all the food going to waste, besides lost sales on non perishable items.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613364#Comment_120613364

If your charging at home does it really matter to you how convenient it is for the person living down the road who can't?

cgorzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613395#Comment_120613395

Well what is the question in the first place “EV’s, more convenient than ICE Cars?” Isn’t that a general question so a question that regards everyone not just oneself? I think it is so to answer the question asked everyone must be considered

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613438#Comment_120613438

There's no absolutism in any answer, but the statement "does the added convenience for those that can have home charging outweigh the inconvenience for those who cannot" comes across particularly weird. It's like saying "does the convenience of buses for someone who lives on a high frequency bus route outweigh the inconvenience of busses for someone who lives in an area with no public transport". The convenience factor for each circumstance does not impact the other.

The fact that @n.d.os finds some convenience from charging at home isn't impacted by my own reliance on the public charging network.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613364#Comment_120613364

I worked out earlier that it's 1 minute faster over a 2 week period to charge every day than refuel

I don't actually have to charge every day, maybe every third day. But I plug in every day to charge from solar panels because free driving is worth 30 seconds IMO

It depends on your situation of course, you might not be able to get a home charger and live right beside a petrol station, then the EV is not gonna beat an ICE for time

EDIT: Another consideration is that you also need to keep enough petrol in an ICE to reach hospital, which might add to the inconvenience

When my wife was pregnant I had to fill the car I had then every week. I was worried that if I said we had to stop for petrol on the way to the maternity ward then I'd end up being a bigger medical emergency than her 😂

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that realistically if it's a big enough emergency that you needed to rush to hospital without any sort of stop then you should probably call an ambulance instead

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613393#Comment_120613393

Pretty sure they don't, but as a fun exercise how's about we both ask around a few local stations and see what we find?

Maybe stations in rural areas would but in towns I doubt they'd have backup power

Look at it another way, supermarkets don't have backup generators and they would have much more to lose from a power cut

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613644#Comment_120613644

my village all in one petrol/mini market/post office/butcher and pharmacy has a generator, they are not so big, the engine is the same as a car engine , generator and fuel tank in a box,

Honestly I hardly visit them, once every 2 months or so, I will endeavor to find out, even the supermarkets, the freezers you see are probably stocked from a huge drive in freezer in the back? Insurance springs to mind now.

Any way EVs are great love not going to petrol stations.

n.d.os

I was actually just speaking with a family member in a WhatsApp group about EV vs Diesel. I get a lot of stick about my EVs from other members of the family.

What's interesting is that almost everyone in my family is planning on buying another Diesel in the next few years purely because that is what they have always done. I think a lot of people miss the point about electric cars and that's what I'm getting at. They are exactly like ICE cars except they run on electricity and you don't have to stop at the petrol station. no-one in my Whatsapp group travels outside the county, ever! I think the same could be said about most people in this country.

I just think a false narrative is being fed to the public about EVs. If you look at Bob Flavins Enyaq's video where he travels across the country, he interviews people in a small town somewhere in the West about EVs and none of them have any idea what they are talking about.

cgorzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613592#Comment_120613592

It comes back to the question asked, EV’s more convenient than ICE? I think it is a general question so needs a general answer so consideration is needed for all drivers with different circumstances. Overall I say no they aren’t as I would weigh the added conveniences for all and the added inconveniences for all to make an overall judgement call. You find doing that weird and that’s fine by me we all have our own way of deciding and sometimes of reading a question. I don’t see the equivalence of what you ask about buses but I did consider the question only in relation to cars.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613915#Comment_120613915

How much experience of not charging an EV at home do you have to come to that conclusion?

Its probably one of the bolder leaps I've seen on boards.ie to tell people their actual experience of the convenience of a car charged at home is wrong because they might have a neighbour who can't charge at home and finds the trip to a petrol station easier than charging at a local supermarket on a weekly basis.

cgorzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120614024#Comment_120614024

The leap you speak of would indeed be bold but I don’t see where it was made. To say what is more convenient for one does not make it more convenient overall is not the same as saying what is more convenient overall is more convenient for everyone.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120614162#Comment_120614162

Your repeated claims that EVs aren't more convenient than ICE vehicles where people are charging at home because some people can't, can you share how much experience you have of running an EV without access to a home charger? I'm trying to get an idea of whether your experience is real or based on the narrative that's often based on anecdotes from 2014 Leafs.

axe2grind

For me, ICE quite a bit more convenient than EV. For many years EV was going to be next car. Finally after MY price drop, there was the car to fit our needs, but we knew it was a lifestyle change. We don't charge over night. Daytime charging from solar. So everytime we head out, we unplug. Everytime we arrive back we plug in. 7 weeks and we have supercharged 10 times, queued 4 times, once for an hour. It was Easter. Some trips to superchargers involve detours.

Filling cars with diesel every 900km or so was never onerous.

100% happy with our lifestyle choice. But to answer specific thread title, for me No.