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Luas Finglas

LeinsterDub

Good news for Finglas. FingLUAS work will start as early as next year.

I’ve been pushing constantly to get this project sped up and I’m glad that to report an early win for Finglas: design works, route selection and the various planning applications is due to commence next year, 2019, as the design for MetroLink is concluded.

I have been working on this for months and, as the only local representative who sought any meetings with the relevant transport bodies specifically o...
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From Noel Rock TD via Facebook

So get the crayons out lads. What are the key locations to hit. There is no Northern link up with ML which i think is rather short sighted.

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orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593682#Comment_120593682

I think the Metrolink will happen. The cost benefit is too positive.

Also we'll need to open up land for development land in the north side for housing close to good transport links.

Ballymun and Northwood in particular can take 1000s of apartments.

Otherwise we just sprawl westwards.

Unless we suffer another catastrophic recession but it doesn't look likely on the horizon.

“If you look at DIE, it seems to be mostly big retail like electrical, furniture, hardware, bicycles etc.

It's more commercial than industrial.”

Fair enough on the brewery, it could be integrated into a pub.

But the problem you’d face with most of the other business is what do they do while the construction is happening? Basically we are talking about most of the buildings there being levelled and being rebuilt into large apartment building. The entire place will be a building site for years. So either way those business will need to move out, I’d doubt they would return after.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593682#Comment_120593682

Didn't you start a whole thread whinging about the country only recently? Can we keep the moaning over there before the thread gets overrun with this type of posting?

Murph85

When they cancel dublin metro. This might be sped up, a pathetic 4km extension will be the countries flagship infrastructure project... they can then say they are expanding the rail network... watch this space...

It wimt service the airport, but we can get rail a few km closer to it every decade of obscene tax revenues the country has...

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120592525#Comment_120592525

If you look at DIE, it seems to be mostly big retail like electrical, furniture, hardware, bicycles etc.

It's more commercial than industrial.

It's a mixed bag really. I'm sure some could stay. Definitely the brewery should stay and have a pub in front.

I wasn't aware it was cost of rent that kept ground floor retail empty. I had assumed it was lack of demand. Or I guess the footfall and potential revenue isn't enough to justify the rent.

Most only have a shop and a pharmacy and maybe a cafe and a creche and that's it.

I think it could be car free in the interior with car access limited to the edges.

I'd imagine an urban planning architect would be licking their lips at the potential.

It's unprecedented in Ireland with the amount of public transport connections.

It will have Luas, Dart, Bus, Cycleway and Metro nearby. 5 modes.

“A lot of new apartment developments keep the bottom floor for retail/office but there's no demand so stays empty for years.

Look at Fatima for example.

So light industrial would be better in that instance”

The reason those stay empty is the same reason why light industrial won’t work there. The developers who own the buildings try and charge too much rent for the business who might want to rent them. The same will be true for those light industries, in fact probably even worse, such light industries really only work when the land is very cheap, even more so then retail.

The companies there who own their own building will happily sell up to a developer for big bucks and setup at a cheaper location. For the others, the owners of the building will happily sell up.

Also realistically no one is going to want to buy an apartment over a warehouse with big trucks going in and out of it! Residential and industrial just aren’t compatible.

I agree with the idea of making this a car free area, it is a brilliant location, so close to the city, so well connected, a great opportunity to create a true modern European style car free location. That simply isn’t compatible with a bunch of trucks driving around.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588571#Comment_120588571

East Rd/Castleforbes development has started .

The 8th Lock apartments have gone up very quickly. Likewise Hamilton Gardens.

It shows the demand in the area.

I agree it's not as simple as empty land.

But once it's rezoned, the land value will sky rocket so will be sold.

I think it's the transport infrastructure of the area and proximity to the city center which makes it so attractive.

Assuming the Metrolink starts, it'll just be 10/15 minute walk away or short Luas trip.

Also it's a blank canvas so all modern urban planning principles can be applied with few constraints.

It might take 5 years to get started, but by then the aforementioned projects will be finished so the demand for development land will be very strong.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588456#Comment_120588456

Nothing will happen quickly with DIE. They are only preparing a LAP now so it would be lucky if its introduced next year. Then you are waiting for leases to run out and sales of lands which will take years. Then design and planning approval which will take further years. There will be lots of infrastructure and enabling works to happen before construction of units can start. Any economic hiccups along the way will delay things further. Quick it certainly won't be.

Most of what you have stated as "starting soon" has had that tag for the best part of a decade.

jlang

Another Luas inspired example outside the city council area would be the update of the Sandyford area with new apartments, retail and offices. Not immediate, complete or uniform but a lot of people now live where there used to be factories and warehousing. Ballyboggan area is much closer to the city centre and has better public transport links. Similar distance to both DCU and Grangegorman campuses as Sandyford is to Belfield. I'd expect an eventual continuation of the development mix already at Ashtown/Pelletstown with another "village" area, probably focussed near a cleaned up Broombridge. Although if I imagine that too much the Luas depot itself also starts to look like something that may relocate - and I see they've included it in the planning area.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588413#Comment_120588413

I think it'll happen quite quickly if it's well planned.

It's the last big piece of development land close to the city left to be developed.

The South Docks are filled in. North Docks almost so.

Irish Glass Bottle site is just starting. So is Devenay Gardens.

Teresa Gardens/Player Wills will start soon.

Newmarket is almost finished.

Connolly Quarter starting soon also.

East Rd/Castleforbes starting soon also.

So that just leaves DIE and the industrial estates in the SW like Kylemore, Bluebell , Naas Rd left to develop.

Clonliffe Rd also is big project which I assume will start soon.

Thats assuming our economy and population continues to grow.

Pete_Cavan

There is little manufacturing happening in the DIE as you might expect in an industrial estate, most of the businesses operating there are servicing the city itself. Dublin, like any city, needs areas like this for it to operate. Moving everything outside the M50 sounds good but isn't realistic either, certainly not in the name of sustainability. Cities can't keep extending into the countryside, sprawl is sprawl even if not residential. Cities are going to have to adapt to function within certain limitations.

Any redevelopment of the DIE is for the long term and a lot can happen in the meantime. There are several large redevelopment plans much further advanced than this, some have been in the pipeline for decades and not yet delivered. While there is huge demand now, the population and number of office jobs aren't going to keep increasing indefinitely.

I'd say at most we might see a few units at the Ratoath Road end redeveloped by the end of this decade. Redevelopment might have stretched eastwards as far as Barrow Road by the end of the next decade. A lot will happen in that time and things will have evolved from where they are now.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587307#Comment_120587307

Some of it would be nice to keep.

Such as the Porter House Brewery would be pretty cool to incorporate in to the development with tours and a cafe and whatnot

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587307#Comment_120587307

A lot of new apartment developments keep the bottom floor for retail/office but there's no demand so stays empty for years.

Look at Fatima for example.

So light industrial would be better in that instance.

I'd imagine any development here will include offices definitely and lots of other services.

Anyway, I think it's an exciting development.

I'd like if they got some international firms like Danish or Dutch to submit masterplans for it

"It would be good to intergrate some of the exisiting light industrial into new proposals. Low key light industry can easily mix into commerical and residential developments and this will at least retain these jobs in the local rather than being pushed way out beyond the M50."

It really makes zero sense to have any light industry anywhere inside the M50, just like it no longer makes sense to have farms inside the M50.

The reality is this development will likely end up employing a lot more people then the current setup. Think about it, there will be new schools, gymns, creches, shops, bars, restaurants, etc. all employing people. Then there will likely be lots of office space and maybe even a hotel or two employing more people.

Then take into account all the people working from home.

By comparison light industry is a very inefficient use of space. Office space would employ far more people in the same space.

The reality is we are now are a service based economy. Having a bunch of industry, right in our capital city is simply not an efficient use of space.

crushproof

It would be good to intergrate some of the exisiting light industrial into new proposals. Low key light industry can easily mix into commerical and residential developments and this will at least retain these jobs in the local rather than being pushed way out beyond the M50.

And that LUAS news is such classic Ireland. A simple 4KM line in a country apparently bursting at the seams with cash would be easily built and done anywhere else.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585760#Comment_120585760

Nothing article really. The RO is to be submitted by the end of the year/early next year, once it is with ABP it is in purgatory for an undefined period of time before it can (hopefully) move on.

Finglas Councillors worrying about their 2,000 homes project on Jamestown Road is laughable, I'd have more faith in the Luas being delivered before any significant number of houses are built there.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585760#Comment_120585760

Great news!

thomasj

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/finglas-luas-no-funding-secured-26883282

read this earlier

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120580062#Comment_120580062

I think a strong factor in gentrification is the % of housing which are private as these rise in value and are sold.

Other factors are proximity to city center and areas of employment, proximity to more middle class areas, proximity to quality public transport.

Also proximity to other amenities like parks, schools, universities, sports facilities, restaurants, bars.

I think Finglas South which is currently one of the most deprived parts of Ireland, actually fulfills a lot of these criteria.

But I'm not sure how much housing is social housing. If it's a high % it'll hinder gentrification.

JohnnyChimpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579709#Comment_120579709

I think Cabra East is most of the way there as it is.

Source: I am a Cabra East gentrifier as of 2020

orangerhyme

I don't see the big deal.

These industrial estates are very low density and should be outside the M50. It's against the traffic flow anyway.

The same will happen in the SW of the city around Bluebell area.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579664#Comment_120579664

Not a problem if we close these businesses and those people have no job left. Plenty of job opportunities for them to get a job elsewhere.

orangerhyme

Does anyone know what percentage of houses in South and West Finglas are social housing or privately owned?

Once the Luas and rezoning and masterplan of the industrial estate comes through, it should in theory gentrify quite quickly.

But if lots of the housing is social, it won't happen so quickly.

For example Cabra East, Ringsend and Crumlin can gentrify quickly.

But Ballymun may not as I think it's 50% social housing

orangerhyme

I bet it's around 500 to 800 employees.

It's a very quiet area really if you drive through it or look at it on Google maps.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579482#Comment_120579482

At a guess, I would imagine that it’s a fair bit more than “a couple of hundred”.

Either way, sending them out to beyond the M50 isn’t a particularly great solution as public transport becomes less able to provide reasonable commuting alternatives to driving.

orangerhyme

Good point.

I guess phase them out to somewhere outside the M50.

It's probably just a few hundred people.

Jamestown Business Park also.

I guess the new development can include offices and workplaces also but Dublin Industrial Estate is too low density for it's current location.

It was probably the edge of the city when it was built and a very low income area.

I think Sandyford Business Park should be rezoned also. the older parts I mean obviously

LXFlyer

Does the plan indicate where all of the businesses that are currently in Dublin Industrial Estate are supposed to move to?

People here are understandably focussing on the redevelopment potential of the location, but it is a place of work for a lot of people too!

loyatemu

^^^Copy and paste that into the submission^^^

orangerhyme

I find these plans incredible.

Jamestown Business Park, Finglas Luas, Royal Canal Greenway and Dublin Industrial Estate.

Completely transformative for one of the most deprived areas in the country.

Dublin Industrial Estate is approximately 70 hectares. The Irish Glass Bottle Site and Fabrizia land are 15 hectares which as plans for 3,800 units and 10,000 residents..

So DIS could easily house 40,000 people.

Could have a town center retail area near the Luas stop and another on the East side by the Lidl and a pedestrian retail street joining them together with a park in the middle. This will give a nice village feel to it.

It'll also require schools, creches, gyms sports etc.

It's surrounded by canal, a cemetery and a park so can go high and dense.

I agree it should be as car free as possible, maybe like that new neighborhood in Utrecht.

It has Dart, Luas, Greenway and lots of buses on Finglas Rd. The N2 orbital route and F spine are right by it.

It's walkable to city center also.

Its just 15 to 20 minute walk to new Metro stations also.

It would be perfect for 15 minute city concept although I think that's just a buzzword.

Jamestown Business Park is 43 hectares so nearly 3 times the size of Glass Bottle Site.

The extension of Finglas Luas to Northwood Metro would be completely justifiable with that type of population.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578137#Comment_120578137

It's here. Docs are on the right hand side, kinda hidden, took me a while to get out of that loop too. No drawings or anything, other than just a general map of what's there at the moment. This is essentially a "pre consultation" consultation, basically asking what can we do with the area, so we won't get anything like drawings or details.

No submissions so far it appears.