Thank God.
We'll be taking the good with the bad then, and have to be prepared to send our lads to Americas next Afghanistan then a prospect im sure would go down like a lead balloon with the general public. But it is our only option if actual functional defence in depth is a concern.
Denmark and especially Finland geographically need to be in NATO they have no option's and its safer for everyone that they are.
Ireland is a different ball game though we have multiple options and we can stay out of military alliances and still get the protection we seem to be mad about these days.
Ego's aside we could very well enhance the "agreement" with the RAF and we would need no jets at all problem solved. Its a win for them as they get to plug a gap in defence and we dont have the expensive outlay of jets that realistically will never be put to use or used in anger... we have survived this long with no issues without an Air Force but now all of a sudden we have convinced ourselves the Russians are fixated on Ireland and are going to attack.. it really is laughable in all fairness...
But realistically money talks and i cant see us getting jets any time soon as they aren't really needed.
We didn't need a 2 billion euro hospital that gives no a single extra bed. But we got that...
Incidentally we did have people in Afghanistan
Ireland has no protection. It's completely open. Not sure why you think that's ok.
So much for the other thread drawing off the usual BS.
If you had problems in a thread and you move to another thread and you still have problems has it ever occurred to you that perhaps ye might be the problem?
Reading thru alot of your comments and Labres drivel i can see why you are both constantly causing issues, endless snide remarks and 0 tolerance to any opinion that doesn't fall in line with your own. And into the bargain you and your little clique attacking posters rather than the post. Typical keyboard warriors.
The Poll was mine not theirs.
The irony of attacking the posters not the post complaining about exactly that.
We can't patrol our borders at sea or in the air. Regardless of any fantasy war scenario we have an obligation to police our territory.
Even if we disagree other countries are asking us to get our house in order.
Big difference between NATO frontline war fighting combat troops and a small detachment of IDF advisors out there doing admin work.
We had no one of any note in Afghan and had 0 impact on the NATO mission there. Where as if we are actually in NATO our troops would be in combat situations and long tours and all that comes with it casualties ect.
Ironically the hospital will probably protect and save far more public lives than the squadron of jets ever will.
Ireland has been completely open since its founding and without incident which in and of itself is proof that we have never had any need of significant military infrastructure. This idea that we can buy a few jets and all that goes with em and suddenly be safe is complete fiction as i stated before outside of being in a military alliance like NATO small countries like Ireland cant in practical terms defend themselves.
We've had loads of incidents you're just ignorant of them. We've had terror war since the foundation of the state. We've also been bombed from the air for example. Afghanistan is just another example of how ignorant of the subject you are. No offence.
Name one poster that i have attacked?
I posted a counter argument to the "we need jets" and highlight gaping holes in the logic and they took offense that's there problem they seem to get triggered by anyone that doesn't join the bandwagon.
We don't have any obligations militarily we are a neutral country.
Those soldiers in afghan were not there in combat roles they were there in advisor and admin roles.
Read the article you posted yourself.
We were bombed once by accident in WW2 now unless you are hardly using that as a reason to justify a fleet of fighter jets.
In what way would jets have aided in our terror war...
All due respect that's a strawman reply.
Ireland is currently one of the safest countries in the world that's a fact.
Factually incorrect diatribe isn't a counter argument. None of it was logical either.
There are notable differences between Irish neutrality and “traditional” types of neutral states:
Basically we are not neutral. The state has an obligation to protect itself and its people. Which it can't.
Well we factually can't field an army or airforce big enough to realistically defend ourselves, we are in the eyes of everyone with a military a non factor.
Protect it's people from who exactly ? To what extent are they to protect us exactly ? Nuclear detterance? Massive land army, navy and airforce just hanging around waiting to "protect" us is it?
It's utter nonsense it really is.
The reality is the need isn't there, if we needed a serious military as badly as you are implying then we d have one but we don't need it. So we don't have one.
Justify your call for an expensive fleet of jets with realistic scenarios and examples of our need of em.
And again read what you are posting we are and this is a fact..
A neutral country.
https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2023-05-first-c295-for-india-completes-its-maiden-flight
Can't defend against one aircraft...
Can't put ships to sea
But all good. Nothing to see. Head in sand as normal.
I don't think you read it. Saying your neutral while not acting like your neutral is completely meaningless.
So your declaring Ireland is not a neutral country.
You believe this is a fact yeah ?
Looks like our inability to field proper naval and air assets is having a devastating effect on our country...oh wait...
They should do a simulation on the likelyhood of such a ridiculous scenario.
They should do one on our inability to defend against a single ICBM too for good measure...
I said it was meaningless. You can say your points are factually correct. That doesn't make them so.
For someone complaining about realistic issues, when presented with real world issues, your argument collapsed screaming to ICBMs in embarrassing haste. You're hitting every branch on the factually incorrect tree today. Was it worth the re-reg for that.
So is Ireland a neutral country or not ?
I'm interested to hear your answer as it's a straight forward yes or no answer.
I don't think there's any point talking to you at this point as you seem set in your opinion of Ireland's urgent need to militarize.
Our need for defense from ICBMs is about as realistic as our need for serious air defence.
But anyway the good news is there is thankfully some people with common sense in power and there is 0 urgency in wasting money on these nonsensical endeavours to satisfy the top gun fans.
Of course we feckin aren't.
Go give your head a wobble and inform yourself.
Just listen to Varadkar and Martin's pronouncements since the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine; 'we cannot be politically neutral' or words to that effect. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but neutrality is political as well as military. Without either its redundant.
What Ireland is, is militarily non-aligned and even that is an increasingly untenable description, as our own territorial and infrastructural sovereignty is threatened by actors of malign intent and we must seek assistance from Countries with whom we already have an intimate cultural and economic relationship.
Your posts show that you have essentially no knowledge of political and practical developments around the issue of national defence in Ireland over the past 9 years, in the aftermath of the Crimea annexation, the rise of China and Brexit.
The Tánaiste's combined Departments are hosting nationwide consultative fora on Ireland's international security policy next month, details are here, maybe think about going along. I certainly am.
To be honest it shows a lack of understanding of Irish FP pretty much all the way to WW2, we have never been “neutral”, we have always been ProWestern/Allies with huge “back room” deals as seen in the last week. The idea of us being “neutral” is laughable, particularly as to be neutral we should have the capability to deny our nation/sea/airspace to any third party that might be at war, something we don’t because of those who keep screaming the loudest about “neutrality” without actually wanting the ability to enforce it.
We are already militarized. We an army, navy and air force. Not very informed. Incidentally Top Gun is for the Navy. No one other you is proposing Naval Fighters. Or defense against ICBMs. You've literally invented a load of stuff so you can argue against yourself.
Defence against ICBMs is just a plausible as you using the excuse of the Russians as a reason for us to get fighter jets. Seeing as you keep missing it, the point im making is both are needless.
Well done on taking the top gun reference literally as well.
Can always count on boards for a good laugh, RTE should pick up on this and declare our neutrality void as the lads on boards have said so...
This the same lad you were quoting?
And its gas you decided to quote him loosely and use "words to that effect" because if you quoted him directly that's not at all the intention behind what he said. I know the speech you are trying to reference.
Right this minute Ireland is a neutral country that is our official stance this is a FACT.
Its yet another example of you being factually wrong. In addition, there are no viable fighter launched anti ICBM weapons.
Since you (not I) keep bringing it up , Russians are credible threat to air navigation and commercial flights as they are often flying without transponders.
Do explain to me how we will forcibly stop Russia from flying thru our airspace, walk me thru the scenario. Id be awful interested to hear what you lads think will happen when we get jets and worse again get into a situation with the potential to use them.
Ye want to talk about Crimea and politics ye would do well to heed whats happened to Ukraine's civilians and cities, because thats what you would be asking for it would be our cities that the missiles would be slamming into it would be your houses and families that could be killed or injured in strikes, the so called experts are great for picking fights without much thought to finishing em.
Its a simple question what do we do when we have used the jets you lot are roaring for we are militarily non aligned so no protection from NATO you lot are completely against aid from the UK. It has been argued on here that the US and UK would not intervene to help Ireland (which is nonsense but anyways).
We have fired the shot and downed a Russian aircraft that disobeyed Irish requests whats next lads?
Ok grand there a credible threat, you have been granted 30 fighter jets, the russians arent responding do we fire? if we do and down there aircraft what do we do then? We would now be in open conflict with Russia. But we have dealt with the threat.
Interested to see how you think this will play out
