If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
To be fair, its probably based on what the Defence Forces have released to the media, which won't be much at all except a bare bones description that doesn't impart any operational specifics at all.
But it does tell us that the Air Corps' two new C-295 Persuader maritime patrol aircraft cannot arrive soon enough.
It says the EEZ in the report...
EEZ isn't just fish related... it includes enforcement of the "Law of the sea", which has sections regarding underwater infrastructure.
The Geneva Convention on the Continental Shelf and Geneva Convention on the High Seas (both 1958) were the basis for this and are contained in the Law of the Sea, which Ireland is responsible for enforcing within the Irish EEZ.
A little knowledge goes a long way lads.
It says "off Irish coast" in the headline.
Which is a way to hype up the real information which is probably something more like "500kms from Irish coast".
A little cop on would help lads.
Just wondering what invaders do you think we should have to deter?
EEZs extend 320km from the coast, so no not probably 500km. As per other poster, a little bit of knowledge eh? The Sunday Times front page has a graphic of their route which has the flotilla sailing very close to Irish territorial waters proper, which is 12 nautical miles from the coast.
Cop on is when reality meets the brain, and the brain processes the information sufficiently.
changing from your original argument now
"probably something more like".
Basically its hype, and as I said "a little bit of cop on".
You're not one to be commenting on processing information. Pedantry and saltiness and calling names is more your thing.
what?
Let's not feed the trolls, shall we?
I have no doubt that there are certain people that will seek to derail and subvert the conversation that is now going to be had, in the open and with no sacred cows, regarding Ireland's future defence posture and foreign policy.
Those are the luddites who will deny all reality to preserve the untenable status quo, a notion stuck in the past, a splendid isolation of nonsense.
The mention of nuclear weapons is but one tactic, don't be taken in by it.
Yeah, for a man so bound up with Irish neutrality being a sacred aspect of the state, you don't half not give a sh*te when the navy of a malign autocracy currently at war is skirting Irish territorial waters requiring a reconnaisance response from our navy, the British navy and the RAF.
It's all ticketyboo. Operation Captain Birdseye is underway yet again. Let's hope for the best eh?
What other route are they to take from the Med to north Russia?
Sail via Spain, Portugal,France , through the channel,and into the north sea ,
No need to sail around Ireland at all
Afaik they already have sailed via Spain and Portugal.
How do you know theres no need for them to sail their present route.
What need would they have exactly
Yes it does, but it doesn't explain it well and I think gives the wrong impression.
I'm not arguing whether we need better observational/intelligence abilities - I agree that we do. But Russians doing something 300km away from Ireland is not as big a deal as they are trying to portray (and they could equally go a few dozen kms more away and its technically not our problem).
Well they have to sail some route don't they?
There are eez's and subsea infrastructure every which way, unless they sail some specific 'C' shaped curve out into the Atlantic for the sake of not upsetting some randomer on an internet forum.
would you like me to make a few up? I mean there are any number of possibilities.
There is no way a person can be this naive is there?
Except if we take the Sunday Times graphic as somewhat accurate, they were not 300km away from our coast at all were they? They were at several points just outside our territorial waters proper.
Outside being the key word.
A naive person would gobble up rte's hype.
Did anybody sht the bed when these ships passed through the med, past Spain, Gib, Portugal? No.
Would anybody sht the bed if these ships passed by France and UK? No.
Will anybody sht the bed when these ships inevitably sail round Norway? No.
West coast Ireland though. T'is an invasion fathar. I seen it meself. The Lenin lad.
OK, so time for a quick summary:
1) Ireland shouldn't join NATO, because Russian ships can't get out of the Baltic Sea without anyone noticing.
2) What about USA bombing countries too?
3) Ireland should consider getting nukes.
4) Russian ships in Irish waters are probably just sailing for fun.
That's Ireland's defense policy sorted then.
The distinction is somewhat academic.
Again, I agree that we should have the capability to observe these events, but we shouldn't frame it as the Russian vessels being somewhere they are not allowed be due to our weak navy.
Why don't you invite them in for a cup of tea altogether?
We are (for the moment) a neutral nation, a Russian navy vessel entering our territorial waters without permission would be a gross violation of our sovereignity, and the legal effect and implication for our security is no different to a Russian jet doing a flyover of one of our cities.
A close sail-by of our territorial waters is designed to intimidate and send our government a message. This is not to mention the credible reports from several European countries that they are concerned Russia for the past year has been conducting a mass undersea sabotage operation of critical undersea infrastructure.
For all the bloviating about keeping Ireland neutral, it appears the Russia apologists in this thread and outside it actually have no regard for the security of the state at all. It's all a big joke and apparently just something on the internet to grandstand about.
We're one incident or incursion away from the Irish government pulling the trigger and seriously making a go of a NATO application. And where will all the Tankiepoos here be then?
It's your script,
Let's here it
Sure, but they also think they've mined undersea infrastructure in the Baltic sea.
I just largely think that any movement for NATO membership should do so on the basis of joint ownership of the "rules based order" that has developed and a shared interest in Western interests and less so on defending Ireland itself as I think the latter is not something that will gain much traction cause its not a plausible scenario.
It's not academic in the least. Russian vessels sailing as the crow flies in our EEZ going merrily on their way to wherever they're going to is one thing. A sail-by skirting our territorial waters over sub-sea infrastructure is a distinct and direct message to the state.
By the law of the land, people are permitted to incidentally stand outside the boundaries of your property. If someone made it their business to drive-by your front door slowly time and again, you wouldn't be long calling the Gardai, and I doubt you'd be satisfied with an answer that they are just going about their business. Nor would it be credible.
Again, it's obvious that for all the big talk, there's a lot of people that simply do not take the security of the state seriously.
Your a paranoid wreck about Russia. We allowed U.S fighter jets to stop and refuel in Shannon to go on and bomb children in the middle east, I would say that was a greater risk to the security of our state than any Russia sub sailing a few hundred kms away from the Cliffs of Moher.
They certainly do.
You want to take bets that Russia wouldn't do the same to critical infrastructure in waters we ostensibly are supposed to defend from unlawful acitivity?
No we didn't .
Lies
