If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
Sadly, the whole of social media has been infected by paid agents.
Remind us about how the Korean war began oh the the Russians told north Korea to invade and they would support them both militarily and at the UN ,
So if your crying about the hundreds of thousands of North Korean soldiers, Russians,and the estimated 1 million Chinese soldiers, maybe know your facts first .
Communist 😹 😹😹
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Can Ireland afford to up its defense spending to 2 or more percent of GDP per year by 2025? See 2014 NATO summit agreements.
The 2 percent Nato target is not binding.
Iceland and Luxembourg spend almost nothing.
We could afford it but there is no will to increase spending ,we currently spend .26% , to send 12 soldiers to Sudan recently we had to send to small aircraft because we don't an aircraft capable of carrying soldiers anywhere in numbers
Should Ireland join but not pay the minimum? How would this affect the arguments given in this thread about deriving defense benefits without contributing?
Ireland should increasing defence spending, and it looks like we will in any case.
NATO cannot and does not tell national exchequers what to spend on defence. Iceland and a few other treaty members will never ever be approaching the 2 percent. I was merely busting that myth, because it keeps on returning to the thread.
If Ireland has “no will” to spend on its military today, what benefits does NATO gain by Ireland joining? Only symbolic?
you are right, I suppose some of that bank money and donations from plastic paddies had to end up somewhere.
Let's face facts Ireland is likely never going to join NATO despite what the warmongers on here think we may be able to afford it economically but good luck trying to sell it to the public especially when we have so many other issues to solve.
For me and I'm saying this for years,we need to increase our own defense capabilities, everything from primary radars to intelligence gathering,to aircraft to naval vessels, we can't physically defend our waters,skies or border for that matter, you join Nato you become part of a large shield backed up with a very sharp sword, we can't expect that everyone else is coming to save us and not contribute if another state needs out assistance,
But before we have a serious conversation about NATO membership we need to have a serious conversation about our defense policies,or should I say lack of any defense systems or policies
I will again add in that while yes we may be thousands of Kilometers away from Russia unlike Finland or Sweden we already are suffering the consequences of the Russian dictatorships attack on Ukraine already. The 80,000 off Ukrainians currently in our country as refugees and the fact that the number of tourism beds available in hotels for the tourist trade this summer is lessened as a result is literally costing us billions. So while the authoritarian regime in Russia may not be dropping any bombs on our island they already as I type these words costing us significant sums of money.
What have Irish hotels got to do with the post you replied to? Nothing.
Firstly to be clear as someone else pointed out using GDP figures for Ireland is not relevant due to the major distortions the multi nationals cause. So we should be talking about modified GNI. For 2020 the last year I found figures our defense budget was 0.3% of GNI with increases already committed to by the current government this will increase to 0.4% by 2028. So clearly not anywhere near enough. We should be looking at upping that number gradually yes but moving up till we get to about 1.5% or thereabouts. I would say a major area not talked about very much is a significant increase in spending on intelligence spending is badly needed IMHO.
We are more then capable of working on health care, housing etc as well as defense. One does not preclude the other.
I was simply making the point that while the authoritarian regime in Russia may not be dropping bombs on us they already are costing us significant sums of money and having less hotel rooms available due to housing Ukrainian refugees is an example of that.
Yes your post was talking about communism as a discredited ideology so not directly related but I was adding on to that with the point about the damage the current authoritarian regime in Russia is causing to us in Ireland.
Well...yes, yes they are if you want to put it that way. But you're still engaging in a non-sequitor.
I don't know why you replied to that post with talk of Irish hotels.
Fair point it was a non sequitur and I probably should have made it a separate post and not replied to your post. I just enjoyed your post and wanted to add on to that what I was thinking in terms of the current costs we are suffering as a direct result of the Russian dictatorships behaviour.
Got it. My apologies.
No worries all good and clear now.
The funny thing the defense forces have asked for 1.3-1.5 billion per year,
A few posters came on here and we're suggesting tens of billions per year for stealth fighters and aircraft carriers ,
None of which we need or nobody is asking for ,the first priority has to be increasing various capabilities first ,we don't have primary radar to track aircraft,
It's either people tell us on here want to build a military similar to the US again nobody suggested or the flip side is let's dispand the defense forces all together because it's a waste of money and the US and EU will protect us so let them waste the money,
They want it every which way
I did not know that the defense forces themselves only asked for those numbers you mentioned. Maybe that is just them being used to not getting much and thus not asking for a bigger number. I don't know. But certainly I agree there is no need for us to go crazy and start buying aircraft carriers etc. But we do need to build up a viable and legitimate defense force that gives us a legitimate defense and security capability of our own first and foremost IMHO. Thus my suggestion would be a gradual increase in spending till we get to something around 1.5% or thereabouts of modified GNI.
NATO has been considered numerous times by them...they almost did after 2001 (and in the 90's for that matter), reviewed it when they sent troops to Afghanistan and at numerous increments until now...
The turning points were 2013 when they joined the NATO response force (NRF), which is a step up from Partnership for Peace, but not a full member.... then 2014, Russia annexing Crimea and the increase in incursions from then on, this slowly changed public opinion from a no to yes around 2015/16 to which the Swedish government signed into law agreements for closer relations with NATO and possible accession should the need arise ...
So no, it took about a year for public opinion to change and for the legal groundwork to be laid about 18 months after Crimea.
Ukraine obviously pushed it over the edge, but it was due to be debated anyway last year as there were elections...
Finland was the tipping point though, Sweden has always said they would join if Finland did.
Again, you are showing your complete lack of knowledge on it all.
It took about 9 years from the Gotland thing to join.
And no amount of speculation and excuses will change that.
it's nice to see you can count at least.
But they are joining,
We've been invited twice maybe 3rd time lucky, people previously Said neither Sweden or Finland would ever join Nato ,
Look how thats going
maybe in 9 years.
or not.
Maybe next year,,,
But it's going to happen eventually
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