If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
Maybe don't waste your time
You're basing that assumption on current threats.. threats change...
For me, the only stop westwards from Russia without encountering a NATO country is, Ireland and Malta. Which makes a discussion to join a very pertinent topic in the eyes of future defence. The "sure what do we have that Russia wants" argument doesn't fly anymore when a country is on a landgrab.
Except Russia encounters almost every single NATO country coming to Ireland. They need to use their waters and pass incredibly close to their land to come anywhere near Ireland, all of which would be blocked to military vessels much as the Bosporus has been.
Russia is also not on random land grabs, they have plenty of land. The reasons are much more historically based (ultimately stupid, but still with some basis in history).
I am open to joining NATO in a general sense of joining the "western order" along with many of our allies. But its not necessary to stop Ireland being invaded and claiming so is overegging things.
I don't think Ireland will be invaded either anytime soon... my points on the amphibious force were with regards to people arguing that you can covertly creep up on a nation... when the simple fact is, you could blatantly rock up to Ireland and there's not a lot that can be done, until boots hit the shore.....much like was the situation with Sweden and Gotland.
But, being the only country outside of NATO in western Europe, with an under equipped and un-motivated defence force, with access to NATO's rear in Europe and access to the Atlantic with plenty of international water to navigate to northern Russia, and now various countries in South America and Africa, Ireland becomes an attractive asset to Russia (or China for that matter).
While it's not trade routes, Ireland's technological presence in the world and proximity to various internet and power connectors (not only supplying Ireland),make it a huge target, a bit like a digital Djibouti. While I'm sure there are numerous agreements in place on the side, I think it's only prudent for Ireland to secure it's boarders, not only in a physical sense, but digitally and infrastructurally, and we need all the support we can get in doing so... i.e. joining NATO.
Whats this crap about Sweden. A country a great deal closer to Russia than we are. Sweden could of course call for EU assistance if attacked, and always receive it. Even a non-EU member (Ukraine) has received abundant EU assistance.
Russia made gestures towards Gotland. Sweden bumped up defenses. And being that even a modest sea distance makes invasion 1000 times harder, Russia backed off. How much more the case for Ireland, some 6000kms away. Theres no direct route (bar round the barents). Theres no blitzkrieg, as such a move would stick out like a sore thumb, giving Ireland plenty of time to tool up. I doubt they can invade. And even if they did succeed, then UK would just invade the by then weakened invader. So why bother, lost cause.
And Russia can cut cables pretty much anywhere, so us joining nato doesnt change much there.
"Crap about Sweden"
And yet Sweden with 200 years of neutrality is abandoning it in favour of NATO.
I'd wager the policy makers of Sweden rather appreciate the viable threat to their sovereignity posed by Russia than you, and also understand that "assistance" in EU treaties means the square root of f*ckall.
Sweden with one of the best militaries in the world, along side it's homegrown military industry,and yet they joined Nato,
Imagine that
The Gotland thing was in 2019, Sweden didnt join til 2023.
Nothing negative happened to Gotland island in the meantime.
Also worth noting that a founder member of nato (Denmark) finally joined EU common security, citing Ukraine, ... so it would appear that a nato founder considers csdp to be worth a great deal more than fk all.
You're very unfamiliar with the many incursions into Sweden and Finland, by Russia, which increased from 2014 onwards...
I wonder what that coincided with.
So 9 years of incursions before they considered nato?
Sounds a bit corelation is not causationy to me.
Does it matter,
Just like the new Nordic combined airforce operations ,not Nato and Not EU
You haven't really any argument
I realise we aren’t spending much on defence but if we used 2.5% of GDP as a figure that would be $14.45 billion which we couldn’t even find anything to spend on!
Our GDP figures are fairly meaningless
Advanced primary radar , aircraft, vehicles, Naval vessels, heavy lift aircraft, intelligence and surveillance,drones
Plenty that could be bought,if only we spent more than the current 0.26 %
Yes, it matters.
Spending in €/capita gives a better indication of what we are actually doing though. It’s far too low but it’s not as tiny as it looks.
Also our spend during the 1980s as a % of GDP reflected low GDP.
No it doesn't,
You haven't provided anything valid
Yes it does.
I have provided everything valid.
No other than rants about the Tories and a few others ,
Affiliation with The Donald (potentially), and an unstable America which is never not at war, and which ignores the UN.
Affiliation with Erdogan, and an unstable Turkey which is guided by conservative Islamic influence.
Affiliation with the Tories/DUP/UVF and a country which has time and again fuked this island over.
The virtual impossibility of Russia to surprise attack us in any significant sized manner.
The lack of any reward/motive for Russia to attack us in a manner which threatens our national sovereignty.
The ability of Russia to cut cables virtually anywhere in the Atlantic.
The high probability of help from other EU countries.
Russia's rather more pressing pre-occupation with getting battered in Ukraine.
The loss of our position as a militarily neutral voice for peace in the world.
Our relative inability to do anything which enhances nato in any case.
The inevitable demand for a referendum by the public if the issue of joining nato is ever a real political prospect.
The division which joining nato would cause within the country.
The likely exit from nato which would happen if SF get into power.
The cost to the budget of increasing defense resources to nato level, in a country with many other more pressing issues.
The increased odds of a terror attack from whichever Islamic country nato is now/has been/will be fuking over in the past/present/future.
No
Never joining. Enjoy.
The same was said for Sweden and Finland,
But hey 😀
Except unlike them we are thousands of kilometers away from any nation that could post a threat to us.
If you want to live in a NATO country no one is going to stop you from packing your bags and moving to one you seem to have a great love for the US so why not pack up and move there.
Yep. Let me know when.
Let's be real here, you have a hammer and sickle as your avatar - an economic mode and ideology that quite apart from producing untold misery, collapsed under the weight of its own idiocy half a generation ago.
So, if we're playing the "pack your bags" game, why don't you get your go-bag and make the big move to North Korea or Cuba?
Your Marxist-Leninist world of wonder is out there waiting for you. The sirens call of empty shelves and political prisons is whispering your name.
Unlike countries that live by a boneheaded discredited ideology, Ireland is a free country, and people are free to advocate for whatever security arrangements they damn please. Give over with your "pack your bags" nonsense.
How's life in Russia these days comrade
How's life working as a paid CIA troll?
We see you....
A bit rich, considering the amount of paid Sinn Fein trolls there are.
You would be right. I am a believer in communism, although I believe the idea was well ahead of its time and the world was not ready for its introduction. However, I am hopeful that with the rise of artificial intelligence. Its resurgent is near. Unless, of course, you believe we should continue living under the thumb of modern-day capitalism.
Also, the two nations that you mentioned have been heavily sanctioned for years by the good old USA you conveniently forgot to mention that.
Also let's not forget do USA's indiscriminate bombing campaign over North Korea during the Korean War weather indiscriminately murdered innocent civilians.
And the US dared to call the Soviet Union an evil empire.
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