I think I'd take Harry Byrne as the third out-half. I just think we need to look to the future and we all hope Sexton can stay healthy.
Unless Sexton gets injured there'll be very little time on the field for the no.3.
Any idea when the irish training squad will be announced?
I know the Welsh squad was announced this week, but all their teams are finished for the year all ready.
plus very little at club level when Munster played him at 12 majority of the season.
Just for accuracy, he now has the same number of starts at 10 this season as he has at 12, since he's been 1st choice 10 over the last number of weeks.
I wouldn't be looking at how Wales are doing things as any kind of indicator.
For Ireland I'd say all but maybe 3 or 4 names are absolutely nailed on already for the RWC squad - For the Welsh it's probably closer to the reverse status.
If both are playing at the same level then I would take Joey, he is the more experienced and will be able to handle a high pressure situation better than Crowley. He was able to close out big games v NZ etc in the summer tour. Crowley has 1 game at international level at 10, plus very little at club level when Munster played him at 12 majority of the season.
I would be shocked if he isnt picked into the training squad, looking at Wales they have picked everyone more or less :-)
it'll depend on how well carbery goes in the wider squad sessions (presuming hes picked). if hes showing good form then he may get into the squad due to his greater experience. but at this stage if crowley is at a similar level id expect him to be picked instead
If you look at the options(no particular order)
This is the way I see Farrell has positioned the options.
From my point of view once Sexton was confirmed as going to WC it was always would Carbery go as backup. His drop in form, the bad game v Fiji hurt him a lot and the concussion so he couldn't get back into the team the next week. Plus the R Byrne cameo. To me Ross's form hasn't massively changed because he was always excellent for Leinster.
The question I would have is Farrell going to bring Crowley to a WC when he doesn't plan to play him at all or bring Sexton/R Byrne/Carbery which is a lot better combination if they need player to cover for Sexton while not flying in a replacement
Farrell has rotated players in and out because of form, he has also tested the majority of options at 10 since the last WC. Which is exactly what he should have done. So at this stage he has 1. Sexton 2. R Byrne 3. Crowley/Carbery for the WC prior to the warm up squad
Ah ya, fair enough then. There’s been so much flux around 3rd choice, I think it still there’s one of 3-4 different options that end up travelling.
I mean clarity around number 3, the issue for years has been what happens if/when Johnny goes down. Credit to the coaches through for taking the bull by the horns this season.
“Not disputing what you have, just basically disputing what you have”.
You’re really reading way too much into this; I simply asked if you had more detailed stats on who’s put-in. That’s relevant.
(And Stephen N also thought there was a penalty before Jenkins came on, fwiw).
Just a note, ultimate rugby originally had Leinster down for losing 2 scrums, but have revised it to one after review apparently
Scrums:
It’s supported by stats on the Ultimate Rugby app.
Leinster were 5/6 on their own put in, winning one penalty and one free kick (30 mins and 66 mins).
Toulouse 4/4 on own ball, winning two penalties (54 mins and 67 mins).
Do you have the stats, and on whose scrum?
No disputing what you have, just genuinely curious.
Some of the only valid criticisms there have been of Farrell is that there was no clarity about who th other two would be until this season.
To be fair to Farrell, up until the 6 nations there was clarity; Carbery was clearly seen as 2nd choice. That’s obviously change since.
Part of me thinks that Farrell has known for a long time that Byrne was a top candidate and he was slow to include him because he wanted to develop others
I’d be absolutely shocked if that was the case tbh. Pressure for results is too significant.
Casting the net yes, but we also need 3 out halves at the WC and until fairly recently we had no idea who they were. Johnny going down in the 6N was always likely and a similar scenario in the WC should be planned for. Some of the only valid criticisms there have been of Farrell is that there was no clarity about who th other two would be until this season. (and I criticised him for it as I thought for a while that RB was obviously going to be involved for his consistency and because he already plays to a high level far more regularly than anyone else.) Obviously a fair few posters here repeat the mantra that game time doesn't make poor players good players but game does make good players better, as does good coaching. Leinster are exhibit A for that. Part of me thinks that Farrell has known for a long time that Byrne was a top candidate and he was slow to include him because he wanted to develop others, knowing that RB would still be there when he needed him.
My post here was correct. The first scrum they lost was the one after Jenkins was introduced.
10 scrums total in the game: in the first half: only two, first one solid Leinster ball, second one a Leinster penalty.
Leinster won a free kick off them as well.
Toulouse won 2 penalties - in the 54th and 67th min, second one after wholesale changes to the Leinster front row.
Generally Leinster had rock solid ball to work off all day, and when both first choice front rows were on the field, Leinster shaded it (winning 100% of scrums and a penalty).
We had problems against an illegal scrum. We have figured out how to combat that
Ireland will never have "the cattle" to have a massive scrum against the top teams. We just need to hold our own
The scrum caused Leinster absolutely no problems yesterday, and at the crucial times in the game the Leinster scrum held up well or actually won penalties.
That’s against a gargantuan pack and three French internationals in the front row.
It’s not problem solved, and it may never be, but a narrative that it’s a huge problem is clearly not the case.
I’d like to see the scrum stats tbh, but there was definitely one other at least.
While we have had scrum issues, they haven’t really cost us, but I’m not convinced we can quite say “problem solved” just yet.
But he did have a dip in form; he went from starting 8 to the bench from the NZ tests onward.
It seemed to coincide with his health issues and since sorting them out he’s really improved again. Good for him.
None of that means the calls for him to be dropped were unfounded / unreasonable.
Why? Why bring up anything positive? What's wrong with you? Next you'll be saying that that Ross Molony could get a call up! Like there's not enough to argue about.
No! It's bmnever safe!
Hear hear. A beast performance from the Wicklow Wizard!
Think we lost one prior to Jenkins coming on. Though the Toulouse loosehead folded in and we got penalized for not driving straight. Not sure how that works but scrums can be a lottery at times.
Yeah, bit of a head scratcher. I think there was a logic to it in terms of just casting the net as wide as possible for options and just seeing what happens.
I still think RB will be leapfrogged relatively easily by a more athletic player.
He was unwell and underperforming earlier in the season. He's back to his rampaging best now. There's no gotcha here.
Not ahead of Sexton but starting Crowley over him in the Autumn is completely bizarre looking in hindsight.
eh? JGP is clearly ahead of Murray and no, Byrne should not have been given game time ahead of Sexton.
Two narratives that should be finished from yesterday-
Ross Byrne can’t do it on a big stage. They don’t get much bigger than yesterday and he was pretty much flawless yesterday. Perfect off the tee, steered the attack brilliantly. The only other Irish 10 who has shown he can win games like that is Sexton.
The scrum is a problem. Leinster’s scrum was rock solid yesterday at multiple crucial pressure scrums in the Leinster 22 and all over the field. They won penalties off that Toulouse pack that was 65kg heavier, and only lost their first one after introducing Jenkins in the second half (unusually).
Is it safe to come in here and gloat about being right about how Gibson-Park should have been given gametime over Murray and Ross Byrne should have been given time over Sexton?
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