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Any explicable reason why Judge Martin Nolan isn't under greater scrutiny by media + the state?

[Deleted User]

https://twitter.com/GardaWatch/status/1648774488060731392

It's one questionable ruling after the other.

No justice system is perfect, the Irish system is no exception.

That being said until recently, we would not have been considered a particularly densely populated state so incompetent policy/bills/legislation and law enforcement almost certainly hasn't received the exposure it deserved.

That's changing though, population soaring (immigration), dramatic ethnic diversification.

With all that being said, is someone like Martin Nolan a microcosm of the Irish justice and law enforcement framework integrity, or is there any explicable rationale why he's not receiving greater scrutiny?

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corks finest

Real reason is practical one

Not enough prison spaces

Obviously they're being told how many they can manage to bang up

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554645#Comment_120554645

It isn't intended to affect the drug gangs. you are complaining that decriminalising drugs wont do something it is never intended to do.

Hotblack Desiato

That's not going to get the massive profits (and consequent violence) out of the hands of drug gangs. So just tinkering at the edge really.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553815#Comment_120553815

Assuming houses will be built and in the unlikely event that the Ukrainians ever return home, no doubt it will be occupied by economic migrants from Sub Saharan Africa and elsewhere and will end up being the most expensive ghetto in Europe, something like Little Mogadishu in Sweden..........at least the Swedes did not fork out €30 million for 150 acres of farmland to create their slum.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553648#Comment_120553648

This is done elsewhere.

Reduces the amount of very low level convictions. Stops people being too scared to admit to drug use in healthcare situations. Stops people being blackmailed in to not reporting dealers (well, removes an element of it).

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553799#Comment_120553799

It is currently being "evaluated" for Ukrainian housing.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534997#Comment_120534997

Whatever happened to the 150 acres of farmland McDowell bought back in 2005 which was earmarked for a new prision. It was known as Thornton Hall, located in north Co. Dublin. McDowell was minister for justice at the time. Cost an eyewatering €30 million at the time - it was and perhaps still is the highest price ever paid for farmland anywhere and has cost us, the taxpayer, another €20 million since and not a single block has been laid.

charlie_says

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120536572#Comment_120536572

succinct

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553648#Comment_120553648

They have. It is the system currently in place in Portugal.

Hotblack Desiato

So it'd be legal for me to possess drugs for personal use.

But the person who sold them to me committed a crime, and so on up the chain. Has he thought this through at all?

[Deleted User]

North Dublin TD Paul McAuliffe has been advocating for drug decriminalization (obviously not including distribution decriminalization).

Again we don't have stats to confirm the percentage of inmates being incarcerated for drug use/possession exclusively, but if that would make a genuine impact on prison numbers, you'd think the political system would get behind decriminalization sooner versus later?

Harris/McEntee have historically tended toward moral righteousness however, versus practical outcome.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552484#Comment_120552484

Jailing drug addicts just for being addicts is ridiculous. Drug possession should be decriminalised. And we should be grateful that somebody who actually knows what he is talking about is willing to speak publicly. the alternative is somebody just parroting the government line. that serves nobody.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552484#Comment_120552484

People who work for the prison service are not mutes, and they don't need permission from anyone to speak.

I for one am interested to hear what the governor of our largest prison has to say. If he says the system isn't working, it's probably worth listening to his perspective.

It's worth a hell of a lot more than people going off on a mad one online demanding a reversion to Victorian gulags because they think they know how a penal system should work instead of a man that has lived-it and worked within the system for decades.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552484#Comment_120552484

In terms of crimes perpetrated by drug addicts, I guess one would be referring more so to the actual purchase and use of drugs, which is criminalized and liable for jail time.

Presumably a number of inmates are incarcerated for this reason.

I agree, of course there should be no exception for crimes perpetrated by substance abusers, using the idea they are as such, to excuse their actions.

Of course not.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534989#Comment_120534989

I disagree. They are there because of the crimes they chose to commit….plenty of people have a rough turn in life but still remain within in the boundaries of the law. Looking for excuses and now a prison governor seeking to make some for them..

why is a prison governor being allowed to go to the media ? With his personal opinions ? Surely that craic should be pre approved by his superiors…

JMNolan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547129#Comment_120547129

The DPP has to prioritize cases based on available resources, which means that not every problematic sentence will be challenged. It is not an indication that all of Nolan's sentences are appropriate, but rather that the DPP must allocate its resources to ensure the most significant cases are addressed.

JP Liz V1

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-broke-boys-nose-after-child-had-dispute-with-his-daughters-is-spared-jail/a1598538942.html

Beat a Child, get off with Nolan

Lionel Fusco

The facts are of course that Nolan's sentencing is largely in line with the guidelines if it wasn't his sentences would be appealed more often also Judge Nolan gets the majority of criminal cases hence why it seems his sentences are lighter when in fact they aren't.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526231#Comment_120526231

Yes, but look at what money is being spent by our government on things that don’t benefit a single Irish person.

yet stuff we do need like extra prison places… nothing…

as the population explodes we are in big trouble without proper and responsible investment in infrastructure like prisons.

[Deleted User]

And re idealism, politicians should absolutely be hauled over the coals for some bill, and lack of bill passing.

Drug reform policy, if it's proven to potentially genuinely affect prison numbers, should be top of the list.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544696#Comment_120544696

less than Eastern Europe which tend to have significantly higher rates of incarceration.

Yeah that's not exactly an endorsement.

Eastern Europe is basically the gangster-flank of the block.

There's been umpteen calls for preventative policing, but the fact that AGS is trending toward losing upward of 500 staff this year alone doesn't bode well for policing of any orientation.

A lot of debate in relation to both the political and Commissioners agenda, what the ideals the former are trying to accomplish with their open-border policy, and the latter is trying to accomplish with his sideways roster protocol.

Yurt2

Leaving aside the judge in question for the moment, there's the inconvenient fact that our prison system is now at overflow capacity. It's all well and good sating public demand for heavier sentances, but if there's nowhere to put them, and I think the judiciary is acutely cognisant when they sentance.

Now, many will say we need more prisons, and that might be true. Currently, our prison system is both at overflow and our largest ones from the Victorian age. They are recidivists factories. But, the Governor of Mountjoy has actually come out and said several times we should look at capping the prison population and to consider are we imprisoning the right people, and for the right amount of time. That's food for thought even if you want to call the Governor of our largest prison a Johnny softc*ck on crime.

If one takes a look at similar sized countries like Finand and Norway, their prison population is under 3k in both instances, we're heading towards 5k and coudl well breach that number next year. But what is notable about both Nor. and Finland is that their recidivism rate is markedly lower. That could partly be chalked up to societal reasons (both countries have a lot of sh*tty people as well believe it or not), but also if we're to be frank, because their focus is on reducing recidivism above all things - and the conditions are built around rehabilitation and reintroduction to society.

That's going to be massively unpopular in certain quarters, and I realise there is an unlimited appetite among many for the maximum sentance to be applied in the worst possible conditions when they read newspaper headlines on Facebook. It's also a multi-billion euro project if we're to be serious about reorientating the prison system towards preventing further criminal behaviour - also something Irish people are unlikely to have an appetite for.

The other alternative is leave things as they are, roll the dice and hope for the best that the people going into our prisons don't become worse people than when they went in. Even the notion of building bigger prisons in the hope it will magically work doesn't seem to wash. If simply imprisoning more people for longer worked, the US would be a crime-free paradise. All the evidence points towards super-prisons being crime factories however. New York State is moving towards shutting down Rikers Island because it's such a mess and an advanced finishing school for criminal behaviour.

This site is interesting to cross-compare rates of imprisonment and other related stats versus other European countries. We imprison at a rate of 90 people per 100k of population. Factoring in that our remand/pre-trial detainees are generally a lower part of the prison population than others (similar to the UK) - along with the UK, we tend to imprison people more than other Western European countries, but less than Eastern Europe which tend to have significantly higher rates of incarceration.

https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/ireland-republic

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120523851#Comment_120523851

In any of the cases you’re alluding to did the judge violate the sentencing guidelines set forth in the law by the legislature and signed into being by the executive?

Potential-Monke

If the majority are from addiction/poverty, and a new prison makes more sense than "upgrading" the joy, then maybe we should build a prisoner soley for people who addition/poverty issues, make it a treatment prison, and keep the joy and it's "inhumane" conditions for the hardened criminals, the proper scumbags, murders, rapists, etc. Seems like a no brainer to me...

I also agree with decriminalising drug use. But with that we need the proper treatment for addictions. So I'll say it again. Legalise cannabis, tax it so that it's still cheaper than black market and direct 100% of those taxes to building/staffing/maintaining drug treatment facilities. It's a win/win imo. If priced properly, the tax take will quickly outgrow the expenditure needed and can then be funnelled elsewhere.

tesla_newbie

The Irish media are overwhelmingly left wing , left wingers tend not to be in favour of stiff sentences ( unless it’s for misgendering etc ) so Judge Nolan’s lenient philosophy doesn’t really catch their attention

[Deleted User]

None the less there is consideration to building another prison, apparently:

https://twitter.com/NewstalkFM/status/1652045242839736329

[Deleted User]

Or politicians could re-examine legislation criminalizing homeless drug addicts to free up space for actual violent criminals:

https://twitter.com/TweeterReynolds/status/1649035448830787584

Potential-Monke

I'm all for it. Build 2!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526231#Comment_120526231

Building a new prison would ease the housing crisis a bit 😉

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120525602#Comment_120525602

I read on twitter McEntee had introduced a method/system to raise concern with what were considered negligent judicial outcomes?

I haven't seen it put to great effect just yet, but I saw that a few months ago.

And yes, there must be some kind of system where judicial rulings can be more intensely scrutinized.