With the value of entitlements going down would it be good time to buy them?
Or rent them?
I got the last of my entitlements rented out today, I was beginning to worry with all the talk of buying being the best option for farmers.
Why is there such a demand for entitlements? I thought it might ease off this year
Yes, will be year 3 before any return on them
You'll be a long time before you get money back on those, The guys leasing mine will have €120 back this year
Yeah seems to be 2.5 times at the moment anyway but auctioneers/advisors are saying that alot of entitlements have to come available yet so that is when prices will drop I'd imagine.
5% commission on top of that 2.5 times I presume ?
Phoned around again this morning: best I could get was €154 for 2.5 times the value.
Not much talk of 2.1 or 2.2 times the value now, despite it being mentioned in the IFJ and on the phone by one agent a few weeks ago.
Yes it only on the commission so it adds about 1% to the commission charge.
I haven't needed an auctioneer so far .
Surely the vat is only charged on the commision
Remember you have to pay up front. As well.ypumoau auctioneer fees. Auctioneer's usually charge 4-5%vat for these kind of actions.
So a leasee will receive about 106 of the payment after stumping up 127 6-8 months later. For twice the money you could buy low value entitlements of 100 euro and collect 600 euro in BISS by 2027
You would imagine that the value should be a bit higher than 50% , its a handy few pound for the farmer. I would have thought there would be a bit more competition for them . Maybe it is because of all the kite flying over the last few years from the IFA etc, farmers now don't understand the new entitlements regime.
Someone wilL pick up a handy four thousand from my entitlement before the end of the year without ever considering CRISS or ECO
Yea I think it was near 700 at one stage,
As a drystock farmer in the 1990s you were at nothing if you didn't maximise the subsidies
A hectare
How much land is needed per entitlement?
Is your BISS value alone €240.
They must have been very high value historically.
Farmer only need one entitlement to draw total Criss payment. He dose not need any entitlements to draw Eco
I've entitlements leased at 50% of their value.
I'm getting €120 for entitlements worth €240 so the farmer will have €120 as well.
The only figure you need consider is the BISS figure, the farmer can get another €100 between CRISS and ECO on those entitlements if his farm qualifies, but I'm not entitled to any of that.
After getting some great information all ready here from two people but I’m just wondering has anybody here leased entitlements yet for the year ahead and how much are they costing Andy what are you getting back?
So if you’re leasing land with entitlements and drawing them down on the land and giving them back to the owner would the department classify this as the owner leasing their entitlements?
Well if you pay €1000 for ten €200 entitlements, you'll get €2000 at the end of the year.
Yea, people who are retiring with good entitlements are getting screwed but we've had a great subsidy run since the 1990s
50% of the 2022 value with the greening payment, or 50% of the new value which is now just the BISS payment (BISS payment only 60% of the total 2022 value now aswell)?
Yes that was suggested in 2022 but it didn’t go ahead,I got confirmation that farmers can lease out 100% of their entitlements and no clawback,it will only effect the sale from 2025 on.Perhaps it will come in after 2027?
It's where farmers are leasing out all or nearly all( over 80%) of there entitlements
as far as I’m aware clawback is only going to effect the sales of entitlements not leasing from 2025
Yes you can but from 2025 there is a 10% clawback to NR. So of you have 20 units you only get to lease 18 each year.
As well there is another factor coming into play. When you take auctioneer fees from lower value entitlements ( about 8-10% between buyer and seller it makes it unattractive.
People leasing it seems are looking for a higher percentage of the unit
As far as I know you can still lease entitlements without land without risking losing them.
Entitlement sales are still subject to capital gains tax at 33%
Before this and from 2025 on there will be a claw back for the national reserve. This was 30% and may well be again from 2025
I was wrong about leasing without land you will not lose them however there is a 10% clawback on the year from 2025. What this means if a farmer has 20 units to lease the NR will take 2 for the year he will get to lease 18. He will get the 20 back at year end. This means that leasing will be less attractive
Hi Bass, when you say there will be no Clawback on Sales for this year and next year what do you mean?
Is this referring to a possible tax on the Sale?
And when you say that you think ‘you can only lease for two years without land before you lose them this time as well’.
Are you saying Farmer ‘A’ can only lease out spare entitlements to Farmer ‘B’ for 2 years before they will lose them as they haven’t used them for themselves?
Don’t think this was case up to this as neighbour here was leasing out around 8 spare entitlements to a cousin of mine for the last 4 or 5 years.
Hope you get the gist of my points and reply back on them cheers.
You have to check with an Agri advisor. At a guess I would expect that BISS can still be claimed on forestry. There is not stocking rate for BISS again AFAIK.
Greening now eco had been decoupled from the payment. This means that you no longer need an entitlement for every HA of greening claimed.
Not sure if you will get greening and CRISS( top up on first 40 HA) on forestry again check with an advisor or directly with the department of agriculture
Moved from Forestry Forum
Hi Everyone,
Just helping out my elderly father with BISS application. He rents out half his land and the other half is forestry. Can someone confirm that he is no longer entitled to claim the Single Farm Payment on the forestry as his stocking rate is nil? Also in that event is selling or renting the entitlements the best option? (He already rents the entilements for the agri land part of the farm) Thanks in advance. I have noticed the lease price being offered for entitlements is well down.
