Kilcoyne has only ever been bang average. Very limited player and poor in the scrum.
That's a bit OTT in my view. He was never top class, but he was a serviceable international player for a period. He was never a destructive scrummager, but was never as much of a liability in the scrums as he's been this year either. There was a window where he was probably Ireland's best LHP briefly, post Jack McGrath's injury issues, while Cian Healy was going through a poor spell and Porter was still a THP, but it probably reflected how poor the other options were as much as anything else.
At his best he was a good carrier and a good 'high energy' player in terms of his carrying (coming off the bench etc), who was a solid defender.
That's the mindset of little old Ireland that bombed at every RWC previously. If a player is 3rd choice at Leinster is the best option then he's the best option, once you start going down the route of taking other factors into place it wont end well. The difference is Loughman is competing with Wycherley & Kilcoyne whereas Milne is competing with Porter & Healy...if Loughman was in Milne's shoes he'd be 3rd choice also.
thats not a good comparison though. there is definitely an argument that in previous tournaments selection was based on past performances and current form was ignored. the difference there was that the players in question were starters for their provinces (or club in the case of geordan murphy) rather than players down the pecking order
So Michael Milne, with his 31 Leinster caps, 12 starts and approx. 18' of Heineken Cup rugby off the bench is now our 3rd choice/going to the RWC...?
Promising performances (49 mins in one game, 6 in the other) in SA elevates him that quick?
To be fair, he's been in impressive form since well before the SA tour. Think he's scored 6 tries this season, which is just stupid for a 3rd choice LH prop. He's also scored 5 in his last 4 games. He's strong, dynamic and has excellent skills.
Yep.
If he's a capable scrummager, and demonstrates a similar ability around the park to the starters, then it makes sense. He has the benefit of playing in a set up that coaches those traits very well also. If the choice is between him and Loughman, who isn't getting that same level of coaching, I think it's an obvious choice.
This is obviously simplistic tho.
It’s not about the level of coaching a player gets tho; it’s about how that translates into how good the player is.
At the moment, Loughman is ahead of Milne in that regard imo.
Like, Vakh has been in a system that coaches those traits very well. Absolutely nobody would argue he should be near the Ireland setup.
I'd say if he gets minutes in the next few weeks, he'll be next in line after Loughman. Boards will go mental of course, despite giving out about their own provinces front row strength most weekends..
..despite giving out about their own provinces front row strength most weekends..
… a large part of which was because we were missing Loughman thru injury.
As soon as he returned vs the Stormers he was roundly praised for the difference he made.
There’s no contradiction here.
Look, Loughman's ahead of him, but I've no doubt Milne is closing in on the Ireland squad in his current form. I assume we'll bring 6 props, so if you've Porter/Healy/Loughman, who's challenging in case of an injury?
Kilcoyne on paper but he's nowhere near the player he used to be
I don't actually think there'll be much complaints if Milne is called in due to injury. If he is called in ahead of Loughman I think you will hear a lot of complaints.
Milne is obviously "closing in" on the Irish squad cause he was training with them during the 6N.
Was Loughman injured at the time?
I’m looking forward to pages of another imaginary selection choice and people presenting opinions as proof.
He was injured as far as i know. Injured in december and returned to action in April.
I wouldn’t have much disagreement with that
But this originated from a suggestion that picking Milne ahead of Loughman was an “easy choice”.
That’s nowhere near accurate.
He's a Georgian international so no, there's no chance of that. He maybe wouldn't have got that cap if he weren't at Leinster.
Loughman might be getting more or fewer caps if he'd stayed at Leinster but he also might not be getting any playing time at all.
Any idea of how many tickets sold for Saturday?
Edit : Wrong thread sorry
Try roundly praising this.
Thats one scrum. Not the totality of his performance. (You could regularly post similar for Andrew Porter, for example).
Also, that’s the Sharks. I said Stormers.
Coincidentally, listening back to MNR here and they're having an interesting discussion about how bad the Munster scrum was against the Sharks and how much Loughman struggled.
And again that doesn’t change the substantive point; there are plenty of games where Porter has struggled in the scrum but he was still excellent besides.
(And again, I said Stormers not Sharks, who probably have the best scrummaging front row in club rugby).
Like I said "other factors". The reality is Milne is at least good enough to be 3rd choice for Ireland and if that's the case and he gets picked its deserved. Im still yet to see how this is a problem?
Tbh I dont really see why Loughman did wrong there, he looked more like a victim of a disintegrating scrum.
Looked like his back was a bit rounded?
I think Loughman is 3rd choice atm. Milne will hopefully get there. I think the world cup will be too soon. Injury enforced changes could happen.
Loughman was going great until his injury. Milne has been fantastic this year. If Milne had not been injured all last year, I believe he's on the plane.
All this whataboutery is very unbecoming.
Maybe it would be better to point out that there were games earlier this season. Where Milne got absolutely destroyed in the scrum. To the point that there were serious question marks about his ability to scrum at all.
Ha, look, I know you’d rather just have a go at me, but if you think a gif of a solitary scrum negates the point I made about a 74 minute performance, and against a different opposition, then have at it.
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