wtf is going on? Bizzarre
It's the definition of pecuniary interest. I don't define these terms myself.
The doubling down on this is absolutely bizarre, and also the conspiracy theory-esque notion that mainstream media doesn't cover political scandal.
The Ditch broke a story. The Ditch deliberately omitted details that watered down their story (they also published council minutes that effectively ended the original line they were taking with this story). Read the Irish Times article today, because it highlights very starkly the difference between real journalism and blog writing. The Irish Times article lays out ALL of the facts and clarifies details, it turns out this story is nowhere near as juicy as you would think if you got your news solely from The Ditch.
We went from Niall Collins committed a crime, to Niall Collins committing no crime, but the goalposts now shift to a moral issue rather than a legal one as the facts inconveniently got in the way. We went from Niall Collins voting to sell this land to his wife, to Niall Collins being present at a council meeting where a proposal was put forward and seconded to sell this land on the open market. We have gone from the suggestion that the land was sold on the sly, screwing the taxpayer out of money, to the land being sold transparently and the council obtaining the best price. We have discovered that the senior engineer on Limerick council made the recommendation to sell to Niall Collins wife as she was the highest bidder, and this sale went through a year after the decision to sell the land, and after Collins had left the council.
And the worst thing is? ALL of this information is from the documents that The Ditch used to write their story.
People are happy to overlook misleading and inaccurate reporting because this misleading and inaccurate information is damaging for people they do not like. Stick it on Twitter and get an army of bots to promote it. It doesn't really matter if the story is completely true and accurate, the existence of the story is enough to put doubt in people's minds and sure if you're having to explain yourself you're already losing. Apparently, this is "real journalism".
This behaviour is Trump-esque. Publish "alternative / partial facts", and then criticise the media when they perform due diligence rather than rowing in behind without question. More and more of this is creeping into Irish political discourse unfortunately.
Of course, those who enjoy this narrative will take The Ditch's view without question, as this thread proves, despite the fact that as more information comes out the actual story here appears to change.
I have huge issue with media like the Ditch and it's approach to reporting, particularly when it's funding (past and present) is also taken into account, as well as the motivation of both current and previous management. As should anyone interested in having a press that can effectively hold politicians to account.
Collins going to make a statement in the Dail but not answer any questions (as per usual).
Think it was H.L Mencken that said that Jounalism is to politician as dog is to lamppost. The one thing on which FFG and Labour could rely was the servile nature of the Irish media.
It is no surprise to see the reaction of these people when an FFG politician is under pressure. The Ditch has done a lot in its short existence to uncover corruption and wrongdoing by politicians and this has upset a lot of those who would prefer that it didn't. Worse than that, for the media, is that it is getting the stories and all the other media, when they finally bother to cover these stories, have to credit The Ditch. While the legacy media, politicians and their supporters are upset, people are able to instantly read stories in The Ditch that would not be covered by the legacy media.
The sleaziness of what has emerged about politicians has damaged FFG. It is also going to have a knock-on effect on support for FFG politicians in that it may give voters a moment of pause in the ballot box during which they may change their vote. FG is already on 15% in the latest B&A poll. This story about Collins is damaging for FF. There's a RedC poll due this weekend and though FF was on 15% in the March 2023 RedC poll, there will be a lot of concern in FFG over whether this Collins story will cause FF support to drop below that.
Regards...jmcc
The irony of it all being that after decrying the legacy media, they have now published an account in far more detail than the Ditch bothered with.
It also certainly seems to alleviate concerns about how the sale was handled, if not removing them completely. Or maybe the state engineer was in on the crime as well...
Were they wrong in the past? Troy for example?
Decrying whataboutery whilst whatabouting.
Do you think the council strove to get the best price of the land for the tax payer?
This is all addressed in the IT article.
The site was sold on the open market. There were multiple bidders. The site was sold for €38k above the initial offer. The council considered the initial offer too low, and went back to get higher bids.
The article also points out that when the offer came in, the council engineer went to the other bidders to see if they would counter bid again. In the end, the recommendation to sell at the price it was sold at was made by the council's engineer.
Of course, all of this information was left out by The Ditch, despite all of it coming from the documents that they used to write their story.
If the shoe fits, uncovering corruption, all nice vacuous soundbites, but meaningless here.
So far, it's all just allegations. Allegations presented in a way that are deliberately less than transparent because it sounds juicier if you leave out some of the details.
You can be both for uncovering corruption, and still question the methods and motivations being used to try and push a story here. It's not one or the other. Of course, it's convenient for many to ignore the obvious questions here, and pretend that the story should be taken from The Ditch verbatim, because it's telling a story that these people want to hear.
It feels like an orchestrated demonstration of unity by the politicians and media. All msm are on exactly the same hymn sheet: McConnell "small story", Pat K "what other small matters are up in the Dail today", etc.
I'm fully expecting Collins to pull out a notarised photo of himself and family at some Irish bar in Santa Ponza for the date in question of that council meeting. Watch how that will unleash a torrent of pieces from msm about the dangers of social media etc. etc. etc. They might even try to get the criminal charges being faced by ABP Vice Chairman reduced as a real show of force ;-)
Now if Collins does not have a definitive 'get outta jail' card then who knows...
This is the best and most articulate article on what exactly happened. Just facts, no obfuscation or spin, no pushing a narrative.
Great post. Some people will cling on to the status quo no matter what. New Politics from FG promised lots of reform and delivered zero. SIPO were promised more powers and nothing changed. The 2015 Public Reform bill is still gathering dust. We all know why.
The 'I'm alright Jack' crew will just about countenance a rare RTE Investigates condemnation as long as nothing actually changes. Akin to Stockholm Syndrome.
PS. I don't think Labre understands what "whataboutery" actually means. Your post was specifically about the Niall Collins corruption charge and source.
As for where do I want it to be in a month?
I'd like this case to be investigated to make sure nothing criminal happened
In 6 months I'd like to see new anti-corruption laws being tabled so something like this can't happen again.
In GE25, I hope his opposition nails him and any other corrupt politician by constantly reminding Irish people that they deserve better than sly winks and corrupt officials.
What do I think will happen?
He'll resign his junior ministry, but not resign as a TD, and cream the system for as much as he can, which seems to be the done thing these days when you're caught doing something naughty.
Here's a question I asked you that you missed.
It's gas you're going on about whataboutery, but won't answer a question put to yourself.
Also not accepting this as a form of corruption because you (and many others here!) have a problem with who supplied the info is also ridiculous.
If it's true, it's true, if it's not, he'll sue.
And if he doesn't sue, you can take it as red that it's true, because this has done him some massive damage to his reputation.
Ah yes, whataboutery, the hobgoblin of a tiny mind.
What Awec and some others have said on this today is bang on the money.
I'd ask those on the other side of it, where do you want this to be in a month, or six months or at General Election 2025? And where do you actually expect it to be?
I've no idea who/what or where the Ditch are tbh. You know way more about them than I do. But if the shoe fits, it fits.
I couldn't give a monkeys about the overall motivation behind uncovering corruption.
You and a few others on here seem to only want corruption exposed if its by your self appointed sources. Which is a really odd way to approach things imo.
This story reminds me of this shocker which went unpunished. It helped to ruin Labour though.
Gilmore's wife used developer interest to push up price of site | Independent.ie
THE wife of Labour leader Eamon Gilmore used a land valuation which said "a list" of housing developers would want to buy a site she owned when she was bargaining to sell the land for a school.
The 2005 valuation -- which said the site was in an area "in demand by property developers and individuals for residential development" -- priced the site at €525,000. Educationalist Carol Hanney was subsequently paid that price by the State.
Ms Hanney had agreed to sell the land in Killimor, Co Galway, for just €142,000 as late as February 2005.
But the details of her valuation are likely to embarrass Mr Gilmore, who has been consistently scathing about spiralling land prices and developer-led planning during the boom.
He proposed a cap on the price of building land when he was Labour's environment spokesman in 2003 and said it was essential to controlling house prices.
His party has been particularly critical of the State paying over the odds for school sites, with deputy leader Joan Burton hitting out last year at "property tycoons" who made "a mountain of money" from school sites in her own constituency.
Ms Hanney's site was not the locals' first choice, and they were angry when it was selected.
-------------
They were all at it.
Leo too when they published about the GP contract
Collins hasn't a notion of starting a libel case. He doesn't want them digging any further. Not a notion. None of the sleeveens that the Ditch exposes will risk that! Troy damaged FF significantly - not declaring houses in dodgy council deals during a housing crisis, not good. Red rotten, power corrupts.
FG'ers manning the pumps.
Didnt Troy initially claim he'd be taking a case only to have the ditch double down and present even more damning evidence?
In the Business Post too https://archive.is/Kt4aY
Hes claiming The Ditch reporting is misleading and inaccurate. If thats the case surely he would have already filed a case for libel to get them to stop.
Muted response from opposition parties would suggest there isn’t much to this years. No harm for TDS to feel like they’re being watched though. He might have to answer questions in the Dail but then I think that will likely be the end of it.
Now that is the most nonsensical piece of posting that I have seen on this issue.
Every single time that the Council decides to sell something, there is the potential that a spouse or child or father or relative of a councillor could benefit from the sale. Quite simply, the case you are building is a heap of sand.
Now, however as @Podge_irl points out, if there was something afterwards in the way that the land was sold, there are certainly questions. However, if the land was placed with a local auctioneer on open sale, and the highest bid was from the councillor's spouse/wife, then there is no issue. Doesn't look good, but not illegal.
Anyways this is a complete nothing burger that caused a load of the usual outrage amongst men who spend far too much being angry on the internet and not enough time enjoying life. Their entire weekend spent replying to every Irish tweet with some hashtag, while Paddy Cosgrave was over drinking champagne and playing tennis in Rio.
Useful idiots.
Not knowing who Niall Collins is is not a badge of honour.
My argument is not infantile, it is a fact. As I said, they don't even try and hide it, Cosgrave is completely open about it.
They are a blog, funded by Cosgrave, to find dirt on FF / FG. They are not a media organisation trying to expose political corruption, they are more than happy to leave some stones unturned if turning those stones is damaging to the wrong people.
They are giving you the content you want to read. This is fine, in between the garbage they do find some good stuff. But we shouldn't sit here and try to pretend they are something they are not.
Personally, I care, because I am not wild about some rich little man with ego problems funding content that is often disingenuous / obfuscated to push a narrative based on a personal vendetta, trying to topple the government of the day.
I am uncomfortable with a publication that was set up by someone who is a known shill for Russian propaganda, and who has since left The Ditch to join a Russian media organisation. This should be concerning for everyone, but some are happy to turn a blind eye because again, The Ditch is giving them content they want, and it's better if you just don't ask too many questions regarding the motivation or money behind all this.
There's no need to subscribe, I can tell when they have something worth reading by the amount of hand wringing and mentions of SF or Paddy Cosgrove on boards!
did you read my post? even if it was, which I don't agree with, but if it was who cares? at last some publication countering what FFG have been doing with tax payer funded broadcasts and publications for decades.
Your argument that they only write articles criticising Sinn Féin to give the impression that they are independent is infantile, "they are not critical of Sinn Féin so they are pro Sinn Féin", "they only criticise Sinn Féin to show that they are a worthy independent journalists". 🙄
Does anyone here openly admit to subscribing to the Ditch?
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