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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,195 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    If that 'protest vote' goes overwhelmingly to other parties that also favour (in some cases even more) liberal immigration policies it won't be recognised as such by the government parties and thus won't serve any purpose...If SF and SD gain significantly at the expense of the government parties the lesson those parties will take is they need to move further to the left, maybe not specifically on immigration but that is likely to be part of the package...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,195 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    SF voters themselves that are most opposed to current immigration policies, according to the polls.

    And SF know that.

    They do but they don't care, as long as there is no prospect of them losing significant numbers of votes over the issue. And there's no sign of that as yet...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,049 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    If some SF voters are opposed to immigration or current immigration policies, then they don't even understand what a left wing or 'social justice' party is supposed to be. The whole point of left wing politics and / or social justice policies would be equality for all and ensuring that minorities are not marginalised or blamed for the ills of the country.

    Those people who claim to be SF voters and yet are also anti-immigration sound more like closet right wingers i.e. they have attached themselves to the wrong party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,195 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    The first reasonably sane party that offers some form of control on immigration will see a huge voter bounce.

    But if none does in time for the next general election then nobody gains or loses (much) from the issue IMO, which suits the established parties just fine. I don't buy your prediction of a major shift to SF in protest at gtovernment immigration policies...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    I think we will follow the hardening EU stance and that's how the politico PR supported by media will present it. FG will try to get some poll benefit out of that stance. Or FF will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Your demanding an answer despite never answering a question when asked for a debate?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,049 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    You are quite correct on the Lisbon Treaty opt out. But Ireland is also a signatory to the 1951 Refugee Convention and the European Convention on Human Rights - meaning any refugee could appeal deportation on those grounds, rather than citing EU law. Note how Braverman is running into major legal difficulties with her immigration plans in the UK, despite Britain having nothing to do with the EU any longer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Where is the proof of your claim that "The legal obligation is only applicable because we havent invoked the Opt Out clause."

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 Tornaedo


    As an aside, I like the way you refer to "Dubs" and "Culchies", simply calling Dubliners, Dubs, but calling the rest of the country, "Culchies" i.e. a synonym for country bumpkins, and even giving it a capital letter as if it's a proper name rather than an arbitrary description. You also put Dubs in quotes to suggest it's equally derogatory... it's not even remotely equal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭creeper1


    How is it countries such as Australia, Japan, Denmark, Singapore etc which aren't beyond the pale rouge states get to have control over their immigration policy but seemingly international courts take this away from Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭creeper1


    Let them "think" whatever the heck they want to to think.

    I don't think less of the Danes. I understand that they are country with very high living standards.

    That knowledge is out there. Hence so many refugees chose that destination until a stop was put to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    I think if its now unlawful to provide accommodation the same should be applied to citizens !

    This seems to be a good argument for a limit on asylum seekers if accommodation cannot be provided . An interesting scenario is what happens if accommodation is still not provided does the court sue the state ?

    https://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-rules-failure-to-provide-afghan-asylum-seeker-with-accomodation-unlawful-6050116-Apr2023/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    Your link Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Georgia ,Pakistan ,South Africa and Albania are countries not at war . You could show how they are justified as legitimate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    EU citizens can come for 3 months and get benefits while looking for employment .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,049 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    UK govt and their media pals have been floating the idea of withdrawing from the ECHR (thus joining Russia and Belarus). That doesn't sound like they are overly confident that what Braverman is doing can be classed as 'legal' under international law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    You are making an assertion that rights only accrue on the basis of opting into something but theres no evidence behind your claim. Just your claim.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its not a contract. Theres no evidence to support your claim.

    The findings of the case were in breach of the EU regulations and the EU Charter of fundamental rights.

    Your assertion is wrong because the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights isnt optional.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭corks finest


    A clown government



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 325 ✭✭Gamergurll


    That user never replies to any questions put to him so I wouldn't bother too much



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,914 ✭✭✭Patrick2010




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    But we havent opted out so it is relevant.

    Your position is there is no right if we opt out

    We havent opted out therefore there is a legal right in both EU and Irish law. Your suggestion there is no right is nonsense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,843 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So there are obligations. End of story really.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The swamp is very deep indeed.

    They must be planning on them being here a long time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    And if they also promise to build a new prison, they’ll wipe the floor with the current parties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There is a legal obligation though. You earlier claimed there isnt but have now had to backtrack to admit there is.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Move over for a damage case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    Ah for god’s sake there’s no way you’re not being deliberately obtuse.

    We can opt out which abrogates any legal obligation. Hence the situation we find ourselves in is in no way binding. Can be changed at will at any moment by exercising our opt out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,973 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Ain't no gravy train in housing locals.

    Am pretty sure he went for dail election with a strict immigration policy after the presidential election. If you can't beat them, join 'em (and make out like a bandit off the taxpayer!)



This discussion has been closed.
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