EV price war of 2023

September1 · 17-04-2023 11:51AM #1

Finally other car manufacturers are making noises about responding to Tesla price cuts https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/renault-brand-sales-bounce-back-q1-up-9-2023-04-17/

French carmaker Renault (RENA.PA) is reviewing its pricing policies of electric cars worldwide to ensure it stays competitive after a wave of price cuts by U.S. rival Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), a top executive said on Monday.

ECO_Mental · 17-04-2023 12:00PM

Please god!! there is a price war and they come down!!!

Ce he sin · 17-04-2023 12:32PM

Ford of France have announced cuts of from €4,000 to €8,000 on the Mach-E so there may indeed be a war.

the_amazing_raisin · 17-04-2023 01:15PM

VW have so far said they aren't going to cut prices, but there's a lot of ways they can make the car cheaper without cutting the sticker price

For example they were offering lower interest rates on some models, they could also offer some extras like service packages for free, or examine the trim levels

Making a lower trim level technically isn't a price drop

In any case, it's a good thing, we needed some real competition in the market

walterking · 17-04-2023 01:19PM

component prices have dropped, there's an oversupply of chips now and dollar has weakened

plenty of scope to drop prices on all cars

eagerv · 17-04-2023 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487336#Comment_120487336

All true, but customers are getting used to a certain trim level, cannot see them being happy with a lower level.

A few years ago I was happy enough with no reversing camera, etc. But hard now to go back after being used to heat pump, etc etc.

I think VW, Hyundai and others will have to drop prices to remain competitive. They will fudge for as long as possible with free packs, lower interest etc. There is only so much extra you can command for a badge..

n.d.os · 17-04-2023 01:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487336#Comment_120487336

I don't think VW could remove anything else from the ID3 or ID4. They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel at the moment with their trim levels. Fair enough if they maintain a 3.9% APR as that is a good rate. The ID4 starts from €44395 and the Model Y €46521 at the moment. I'd buy the Model Y if it was only 2 grand extra for all of the extra kit, power output, and range.

n.d.os · 17-04-2023 01:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487348#Comment_120487348

Yes, the chip shortage excuse won't cut it anymore. Plenty of choices out there now. Next year there will be a huge influx of value coming from China too and for the first time in the Irish car market, cars from China that are infinitely better than those made in Germany.

slave1 · 17-04-2023 01:45PM

I don't think we'll have a price war, no one can compete with Tesla cost of production, they will be dropping prices so they don't end up with inventory to deal with rather than try and beat Tesla, sure an ID3 or Nissan Leaf are thousands more expensive than a Model 3 for example

September1 · 17-04-2023 02:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487336#Comment_120487336

I think they already had a stealth cut this year and they basically offer much higher trade-in values, I got valuations from VW dealer that were higher than prices on DD. When I asked other brand garage that was part of same company to match it, they called sister garage and told me that there are some special allowances from VW and they will not match it for other brand. In November 2022 VW was not doing it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487452#Comment_120487452

I think being forced to drop prices to sell cars from inventory would be a price war, unless they decide to pause manufacturing and wait it out.

Fingleberries · 17-04-2023 02:40PM

It's crazy to think that a white RWD model 3 is just a hairs breadth above €40k (cash price, or if you arrange your own finance).

If you're in the market for an EV (and the finances work out), this would be hard to argue against - even with it being white, and not having the USS, it still has more tech and reliable software updates than most of the competition.

liamog · 17-04-2023 04:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487757#Comment_120487757

The form factor of the Model 3 is problematic for me, I need a proper opening boot for the doggo.

Fingleberries · 17-04-2023 04:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488193#Comment_120488193

Definitely agree. For those with prams, buggies and golf clubs, the Model Y might also be preferable - although that while not the same level of a steal, per se, the MY is definitely positively priced compared to equivalent models across other manufacturers. I think it's within €2k of an id4, but higher spec as standard.

Red Silurian · 17-04-2023 07:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488239#Comment_120488239

I had a quick look on carzone earlier at 1-2 year old ICE cars of similar size to the Model 3, Mondeo's, Passats, Avensises etc they all retail for 33-39k... €1-7k more for a new Model 3 is obviously great value

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487757#Comment_120487757

This is quite true as long as Tesla keep to their advertised delivery schedule as the grant is being cut in July which will add €1,500 to the price

...Ghost... · 17-04-2023 07:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487432#Comment_120487432

Jaysus lad, ye can't be sayin' that about German cars. Ye will give the German fanboi a stroke!

As a matter of fact, I'm in Germany now and driving a BMW PHEV company car. It's probably a lease car and it's just horrible to be in. The HUD is a nice feature, but the car feels old, cheap and thrown together. I really hope BMW get back to building affordable and great quality cars.

podge1979 · 17-04-2023 08:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487348#Comment_120487348

Not an oversupply just yet, automotive grade chips still below where it should be, the bounce is felt with consumer electronics first. Also some OEMs suffering still more than others.

https://www.automoblog.net/will-chip-shortage-end-in-2023/

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/chip-shortage-easing-unevenly-automakers#:~:text=AutoForecast%20Solutions%20estimates%20that%20automakers,year%2C%20Bank%20of%20America%20concluded.

Squeaksoutloud · 17-04-2023 08:28PM

Didn't VW even admit they were making higher margins on less turnover so maintaining the profit levels. I would say there has to be some scope for prices to come down otherwise the national fleet will be aging rapidly.

podge1979 · 17-04-2023 08:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489070#Comment_120489070

Yeah there was a shift in business model for likes of Hyundai and VW to go higher end more margin and less volume. Maybe influenced in by Tesla in the margins they were making. So with Tesla's shift to volume over margin now maybe the others will pivot back also.

mickdw · 17-04-2023 09:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488944#Comment_120488944

What bmw is that?

...Ghost... · 17-04-2023 10:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489238#Comment_120489238

It's a 225xe. Felt no better than the generic Opel rental I had a couple of months ago. I know it's a mid spec, average Joe model, but I didn't expect it to feel like an econo-box. They are a 45-50k car, but felt like a 20k yoke.

Red Silurian · 17-04-2023 11:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488961#Comment_120488961

Don't Taiwan make over 60% of the world's microchips? Gonna be a fun few years if China invade

eagerv · 18-04-2023 10:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487336#Comment_120487336

I see an ad for ID.4 popped up in my FB from Tom Murphy Car Sales Waterford.

Up to €3k scrappage.

3yrs free servicing.

3yrs free road tax,

Nationwide delivery.

18-04-2023 10:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489967#Comment_120489967

That's it and also the reason whey US is ready to go in to defend TW as almost any cost.

rodneytrotter15 · 18-04-2023 10:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489967#Comment_120489967

Not sure of the % but yep TSMC make wafers and saw die for most of the incumbents. That said lots of them are actively reshoring at the moment and building fabs or reinvesting.

listermint · 18-04-2023 10:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490757#Comment_120490757

Good news for the likes of Ireland as investment around these technologies was questionable some years ago but not anymore sharp focus after Covid and Russia. Not that TMC is direct comparison to Intel though but the production facilties aren't world's apart.

podge1979 · 18-04-2023 01:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489967#Comment_120489967

Yep this and COVID driving changes in supply chains, shifting a bit where you see some more suppliers opening plants but building new facilities takes time. Example of this is Bosch opening a chip factory in Dresden. More a component supplier but seeing the gap in chip supply and supply chains.

Other suppliers also pushing to open plants in U.S but skills shortages maybe another issue then.

Red Silurian · 18-04-2023 08:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491340#Comment_120491340

Yeah so the way I see it we are going down one of 2 roads here..

One is of peace, Tesla will continue to cut prices - but I can't see them falling much lower than where they are now after the removal of the SEAI grant

The other is of war in Taiwan as China invades

Hold on to your car for dear life as it is about to go sky high in value

Red Silurian · 18-04-2023 08:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491340#Comment_120491340

Yeah so the way I see it we are going down one of 2 roads here..

One is of peace, Tesla will continue to cut prices - but I can't see them falling much lower than where they are now after the removal of the SEAI grant

The other is of war in Taiwan as China invades

Hold on to your car for dear life as it is about to go sky high in value

...Ghost... · 18-04-2023 08:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491340#Comment_120491340

I'm in the tech sector and often work at chip manufacturing plants globally. Bosch in Dresden is a small enough outlet, but seems well prepared for the market. Global Foundries and Infineon are the big outfits there, but I heard TSMC may be planning a fab in the area. They are expanding and building more outside Taiwan, which is a very wise move.

It still takes years to build a site and most equipment takes a year or two from order to production.

ted1 · 18-04-2023 11:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490727#Comment_120490727

I got 3k scrap page in when I ordered in 2021

Stevie2001 · 19-04-2023 11:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488908#Comment_120488908

Tesla 3/Y are excellent value alright if your buying straight, especially compared to rivals like ID3/ID4/Ioniq and so on, an EV is still a hard sell to most people though with electricity prices the way they are though. My father just bought a new Toyota Corolla and honestly for someone like him, EV's are not attractive, Corolla came in just under 10k cheaper than ID3 as Toyota gave better trade in and Corolla list price was 8k cheaper than 58kWh ID3 too and what Tesla offered on a trade in for 181 diesel Corolla was laughable, even though M3 was cheaper than ID3 with trade in it worked out more expensive.

Then he looked at electricity prices and he's paying 33c a unit now and only better offer was 40c day/23 c night and he doesn't want to night rate and running stuff with fire risk.

At 33c a unit the savings vs petrol at 1.60 a litre was peanuts and then the ID3 and Model 3 won't make his regular journey off Listowel to Dublin on 1 charge driving 120

Basically at current electricity/petrol prices EV's are not attractive, why would you want all the hassle of an EV on long journeys for no benefit.

EV price war of 2023

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