Unfortunately for Ukraine numbers is a quality of it's own. Even if the Russian losses were much more Ukraine still don't have the manpower Russia can throw for years at this - and Ukraine's losses can't be sustained very long in comparison to Russian forces.
I think the situation is pretty grim. As for the counter offensive apparently being planned - if it happens that just has to work, they have to keep moving forward.
Anyone else getting the feeling the leak is a double bluff?
No. Its far too **** stupid.
Anyone else getting the feeling the leak is a double bluff? Allow intel that's some true some not into the hands of a few idiots in the system to allow leak. Even encouraged by planted online contacts. Make a big show about it to tighten home security and let Russia think they just watched USA walk over a landmine.
It feels like counter bullsh*it ops to me, well I hope it is.
So no 180k dead on both sides like you claimed earlier.
What's surprising is the US intel figures are extremely close to ORYX figures.
Russian Tank losses: 1908 (ORYX) vs 2048 (US intel)
Ukraine Tank losses: 480 (ORYX) vs 486 (US intel)
I would have though they would have more intel and not just browse ORYX for figures.
The Ukrainian KIA figure is also interesting. Back at the end of November they acknowledged 10-13K dead. (This was largely seen as an under reporting by people on here). But it's about 1.5k a month up to November (higher end of the 13k). I believe the figures from the leak are up to March 1st? Let's be lazy, that's 4 months at 1.5k a month, added to the 10-13k gives us 16-19k. Very very close to the US intel figure.
NATO figures from the first month of the war had Russian dead at 7-15k. So Russia lost an additional ~30k in 12 months. That's including the cannon fodder, conscripts and meatshields being used by Wagner.
Where has this 10-1 been bandied about the war as a whole?
Maybe Europe/ NATO/ US is going to have to up it's game so. If the choice is between letting Russia lay waste to and seize a substantial part of a neighbouring state or driving them out inflicting a serious defeat on them, what will be above choose. This is where the prospect of escalation becomes real and even justifiable. A lot of blood has been spilt, a lot of water under the bridge, has the point of no return been passed?
Yes because the 10-1 has bandied around this thread for months,but Russian are losing tens of thousands a month at 10-1 losses,
But the American intelligence leak's completely debunked that along with the other claims of at least 7-1 according to the same people over and over,
It's barely 2-1 losses and yet Russia are gaining ground,
In fairness Ukraine would not be a reliable source in reporting Russian casualties as it is their job to spread damaging misinformation about Russia. Very hard to get facts about such war casualties but as the US report was supposed to be confidential it could be close to accurate, unless it was purposely leaked.
"One think this leak does ,it debunks the notion of 10-1 losses or even 7-1 in Ukraines favor ,"
Why do you think these figures from a random leaked report are more accurate than any other source?
The Ukrainians are fighting in their own country and while not publishing their own losses are regularly publishing their count on the forces lost by the russians in the war there and they are very different than those that you just typed out.
Was there ever any reports of those ratios outside of Bakhmut???
And Gatling, if you believe the deaths on both sides are that low then you have swallows the kool aid.
The loses were 354,000 combined losses for Ukraine and Russia,
Russians KIA 35,000 - 43,000
Russian incapacitated/injured - 154,000-180,000
Ukraine KIA -15,500 -17,500
Ukraine incapacitated/injured -109,000-113,500,
Russian tanks lost- 2048
Russian APC lost- 3900
Ukrainian tanks lost -486
Ukrainian APC lost-1020 ,
One think this leak does ,it debunks the notion of 10-1 losses or even 7-1 in Ukraines favor ,
And the source for 180k KIA on both sides?
Even the photoshopped version didn't have the figures that high.
In honesty they're free to report , there's just no likelyhood that they'll get the whole truth ,
Both sides wish to under play their failures and hype up their victories , and if you actually thought differently then that's a bit odd ..
A western journalist in Donbass is free to report ,( once nothing sensetive is included ) and there are plenty of journalistic critiques of ukraines military , plus there are the vloggers ,some more critical than others ..
But no way either sides military are going to announce actual figures or dates
the glide bombs have been a success cheap and easily adapted to dumb bombs which they have alot more of than missles,this is where reaper drones would have come in handy compared to off the shelf djis or clones Which operate on 2.4- 5ghz band
The leaked documents say that Russia has been quite successful at jamming the GPS guidance of the glide bombs.
There's a war on. Do you expect Ukraine and Russia to publicly reveal everything about the conduct of the war? Can you point to a war in history in which this ever occurred? And why would you have this as a reasonable expectation of any future war?
Here's a general rule, if you get your information from countries with a free press, you are going to be much closer to getting a sense of the truth of matters. Than say Russia. Another general rule is that whatever the opposite of Russia says is closer to the truth.
Oh look someone new ,
Darth on point as usual.
Seems this wasn't mentioned at all yesterday Russian s300s hit an apartment complex in sloviansk (9 dead so far still searching) which is next Big city after bakhmut, looks like exactly what I said last week they are already looking past bakhmut .
Military training area in russia on fire.
Looks that way reports suggest a Russian base was hit with 12 missles, that's a pretty large strike on one location
HIMARS?
I’m surprised they collected that many bodies. They normally leave them behind.
J
jayaus Patrick Stewart was so young ! I thought he was an old man back then !
I'm going by the maps not by the claim of one or the other,
It's beyond obvious Russia is in control of the majority of bakhmut,
Russian forces have maid steady gains for the last few weeks,and yet people on here deny it ,
But but but, 10-1 ,10-1
Lol holding on to a figure that been brandied around for months from the same accounts ,
Funny that no .
Ukrainians are dieing in their thousands in bakhmut just like the Russians are ,as I said last week or the week before Russia has changed it's tactics in bakhmut,as a result they have made gains , which puts several towns outside side of bakhmut at risk in the next few weeks,
He says the Russians changed the numbers on the leak and then leaked the leak.
When pushed for evidence of this Russian interference he hasn't responded yet.
A link or a clip would be good. I hadn't heard this theory anywhere else
According to Reuters, the documents allege that between 15,500-17,500 Ukrainian troops were killed and 109,000-113,500 wounded in action.
Russia is believed to have 35,500-43,000 forces killed in action and 154,000-180,000 wounded, Reuters added.
Im not sure what leak you are referring to?
If Ukraine was acting the same as Russian meat grinder tactics that would be a correct assumption. They retreat back a street to prevent being overrun vs the Russians who will be shot if they retreat. You can see how loosing ground or a tactical retreat can loose ground while not loosing troops.
Ukraine and Wagner both dismiss the 80% claim, so I guess you're going on the Russian figure?
Holding Russians where they are prevents more war crimes and destruction on the next city
So why not keep hold especially when defending is less costly than for the aggressor
It seems the Russians have re-energised it forces with reinforcements hope they will end up the same way as its previous lot.
I am sceptical of the exhaustion, low morale and short of weapons touted by propaganda on Russians forces they still seem better resourced unfortunately.
I think you are making a wrong assumption: The loss of ground may not be due to an equal loss of forces but a gradual retreat when a greater loss of forces would be required to hold. The numerical superiority is the problem, especially since a significant fraction of them are probably now parratroopers, not conscripts and convict cannon fodder.
- Ukrainian intelligence had data on enemy numbers at the outset of the war. What are these numbers now?
- The number of the enemy forces involved – in the territory of Ukraine and around it – is slightly more than 350,000 - Commander of the Ukrainian Army’s Joint Forces, Lieutenant General Serhiy Naiev
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3673603-serhiy-naiev-joint-forces-commander.html
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://we.vanillicon.com/v2/e050b53be62f0ae2404c620976170938.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w2.vanillicon.com/v2/23a17162c37eb6bc3dac0636b261afca.svg)
