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Adding an extra radiator in living room

Hippodrome Song Owl

I will be getting a plumber to look at this for me soon, but I'd like to have some idea of the scale of work and approximate range of costs involved please.

Typical 90s 3-bed semi-d, oil heating with a Grant Vortex 90-120 boiler installed 8 years ago - radiators are the original old single panel ones but all working well.

In my living room there is one long radiator on the wall which has the hall on the other side. This is also the only viable place to put the sofa (due to double doors into dining room), so the radiator is partially blocked and it just doesn't seem adequate to heat the room. There is an open fireplace also but not in use.

I want to add another radiator in the living room if possible. The laminate floor is currently in bits, so I'm getting new floors in a couple of months and feel this would be the best time to get this done first.

If deemed possible by the plumber in terms of demands on the system, what is the approximate cost of this including the radiator, pipes and the labour? 1k? 5k? Any idea?

Also, where would you advise would work best to place an extra radiator to improve the heat? Under the front window? Or one side of the chimney breast? Somewhere else?

Any advice appreciated, thanks.

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10-10-20

Hi, Personal opinion here, but I'd replace that single panel with a "K2" type new rad. K2 is a double with fins on the inside for added heat dissipation. It can be physically smaller than the original, and as it's double-walled with good convection, you don't need to be so concerned about having the couch up against it.

https://www.stelrad.com/radiators/double-panel-radiators/

You would first need to roughly 'size' the heating demand in the room using a tool:

https://www.stelrad.com/radiator-size-search/

That will give you a heat output in watts, and then you can pick a rad to fit the watt requirement from any of the builder's suppliers, or have the plumber supply and fit it.

Works such as these are tricky to cost as we don't know all of the details such as the complexity of the piping and flooring, but I'd hazard a guess that it's between the range of 400 to 550 EUR for labour alone.

Hippodrome Song Owl

Thank you for that information. Do you think changing that radiator to a newer and better one would be enough to adequately heat the room? Or would adding another radiator as well be better to distribute the heat better?

monseiur

Not exactly answering your question but you mentioned a fireplace that is not used - is it still open or sealed off ? If open it will draw the heated air from the rad out of the room and it will be almost impossible to heat the room properly.

Regarding the rad, replace your existing one with a modern twin panel rad and fit under window to allow maximum circulation or air - plumber will run pipes along skirting board.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472669#Comment_120472669

The fireplace is still open. I would like the option to use it sometimes as I lived all my life until now with an open fire and back boiler as only heating source and will miss it. But I don't want to rely on it for everyday heat either so I'll have to consider sealing it I suppose.

Yes I think I will update the old rad and maybe the other two downstairs ones too. Thanks for your advice on placement of a second rad also.

If replacing three downstairs rads and adding another rad under window, what ballpark price range would I be looking at? Thanks.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472669#Comment_120472669

Great points. More options for the OP.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472604#Comment_120472604

As long as the new rad is sized, it should heat the room sufficiently I'd be willing to bet that the original rad is undersized by about 50%.

phormium

I'm no plumber but just my experience of adding a rad to an existing system of old rads, I added one of those K2 types mentioned to a kitchen extension, rest of the house is original old radiators all working perfectly. Anyways it never heated up properly, one panel would heat a bit but second panel barely warm, plumber called back and he managed to get it to heat by turning off a load of other radiators to 'drive' the water to it or some similar explanation, also explained if I remember correctly that those new radiators have smaller water channels or something so not as easy get water into them unless pressurised system which I do not have. Only solution offered was to change pump to stronger one, well I had no notion of doing that for what had been a perfectly working system. I don't even bother turning on that radiator now and boxed it in actually, useless yoke! Bought a free standing gas stove for when needed, fancy super ser type.

As I say I am not a plumber and depending on what I remember of story but my take from it was if I was doing that again in the morning I would find somewhere an old radiator that matches existing type so as not to have this problem, you can't buy them but often see ones for sale secondhand. Sorry I didn't do that.

So basically get absolute confirmation that it will work, I had good builder and well experienced plumber yet have a useless radiator!

Wearb

Sometimes a radiator will be on a line that will not supply any more heat than its (plumbing system) is designed for.

OP You need to turn off a few of the other rads to see if that one heats up properly then. It might not have enough hat water going to it, or partially sludged/blocked up. Otherwise you could end up like the poster above and see no improvement from a new radiator.

Some people think that a 3/4" (or even 1/2") pipe can cater for an almost unlimited amount of radiators.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474185#Comment_120474185

The radiator in question heats up perfectly and all rads were checked by plumber when the boiler was serviced in December when I bought the house. But it's just not powerful enough and/or positioned well enough to properly heat the room.

Yes, adding or even updating radiators may be too much demand on the current system. Hopefully the plumber can properly assess thd situation so I don't end up in the situation described above!

I'm actually having an old radiator replaced as part of main bathroom renovation tomorrow! Hopefully this goes OK, but I think I'll ask them to save the old rad now in case it could be added more easily in the living room.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473249#Comment_120473249

Have you considered putting in a small multi fuel type stove or inset stove in that fireplace? That will control the draft up it. But also can be lit of colder evenings - we have a Waterford Shire stove I think it's called for many years, runs off a smidgeon of fuel and great heat out of it.

denismc

Have you considered adding an electric radiator to the room to supplement the original rad?

I had a situation like yours, in that the existing radiator was struggling to heat our living room, I purchased an electric radiator to give a boost in the morning and evenings and then the main rad maintains the temperature.

The one I got can be wall mounted but I currently have it free standing and it comes with a 3 pin plug so I can remove it in the summer time.

The advantage of this is the upfront cost was low and I didn't have to get tradespeople in.

The downside is the running costs can be high, I have night rate electricity so I only use this before 9 am I also have solar panels so I can use the surplus solar to heat the room during cold sunny days like we are having at the moment.

So an electric rad might work for you if you use it to help the main rad get the room to a comfortable temperature.

I got one like this,

Wärme Designer WiFi Electric Wall Heater Panel Heater Radiator - Ultra Slim (8cm) - 2Kw - Programmable Digital Thermostat - Wall Mountable (Free Wall Bracket Included) - Maintenance Free : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474746#Comment_120474746

Yes, I suppose this would be the ideal for me. I haven't looked at costs, but had just assumed it would be too expensive right now.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474770#Comment_120474770

I would be afraid of the electricity bills tbh!

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476716#Comment_120476716

I too have an open fire in my sitting room which I do use, got a quote few weeks ago to put in insert stove which included removing cast iron effect bit, putting in black granite to match existing base bit (cant remember proper name for it!) and putting back existing fire surround. 9kw stove 3.5k, bit cheaper for 7kw, way too much for me for the value I'd get out of it!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476966#Comment_120476966

Here you go - a pocket rocket for €735 https://www.chadwicks.ie/oisin-eco-nb-seno.html

Insets - a little dearer https://www.chadwicks.ie/f-bird-multifuel-non-boiler-inset-stove-16-6kw-93613.html

Free standing give out most heat and these small non boiler types are very efficient at heating a room.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120477403#Comment_120477403

I actually asked about the free standing but was advised I would have to bring the hearth (remembered the word!) out further into the room as the stove couldn't sit back into existing fireplace, not big enough. Now as my room is smallish anyway I didn't want a bigger hearth.

The second one is not far off the price I was quoted, only 1,100 of the 3,500 was for the actual 9kw stove, the rest was the granite surround, flue, fitting, vent etc. So while I can buy that second one for that price I'll still have to get it fitted and do the other bits, I understand it's probably cheaper to hire someone else to do that and buy the stove myself but I didn't want the hassle and just wanted someone to come in and do the job. It would want to be a lot cheaper to make it worth it to me even at that.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472669#Comment_120472669

This might be a stupid question, but if plumber runs pipes along the skirting board, will that be an issue in fitting new skirting afterwards? I am due to get new floors and new skirting fitted, and thought it best to get radiators sorted first. Would this pipe layout affect the fitting of new skirting?

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520445#Comment_120520445

Yea, that's a tricky one. Ideally the new floors etc. are fitted after all plumbing work is completed. Have a chat with your plumber, it may be possible to drop the rad pipes down from the attic and box them in, otherwise the new skirting has to be fitted before plumber fits pipes. You could protect new floors with old carpet but holes thru walls etc. have to be filled in & painted etc. Another option is to run pipes on wall above skirting board, when painted the same colour as wall you'll hardly notice them.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520445#Comment_120520445

If you are replacing the flooring would you consider burying the pipes instead of running them along the wall.

10-10-20

Did we ever find out whether the floor is concrete or raised wooden joists?

Hippodrome Song Owl

Thanks for the comments. It's definitely not straightforward! The radiator calculators online all say it will require more than one radiator so I think I have to add another one.

The floor is concrete.

DublinDilbert

Install a double panel radiator in place of the old one, no point putting one else where in the room.

You probably have a huge losses up an open chimney. Definitely fit a chimney balloon to seal it off as it is leaking air 24/7.