Old thread seems to be permanently locked. It will be interesting if anything can come of this at last.
Threadbanned Posters:
It's because the AGS coerced Marie Farrell to a false statement in a court of law. One more behavioral proof that the AGS were in it on some way, besides giving drugs to transients to get close to Bailey, or the Bandon Garda station tapes.
Seeing a strange person, often described as a man with a dark coat and unshaven for a couple of days, is apparently automatically suspicious. Whether Bailey was this strange person or somebody else we can only speculate. However it never proves murder beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law, - sadly unless one is in France.....
This 100 times over.
People will make all sorts of excuses for Bailey and claim that everyone else was lying, or was mistaken or got things wrong etc etc.
But still there he is.
Missing from his house the night of the murder, and that only coming to light while under arrest.
With a history of violence towards women.
With scratches that only his partner and her kids claim came from a turkey, or a tree or whatever.
With ambiguity around whether he knew her or not.
With the fact that he admitted to killing her to two different people on two different occasions.
It's very obvious why he has always been the prime suspect.
From what I’ve read on the case it seems that a lot of those involved were crackpots with dubious pasts, and the gardai had nothing to go on. To give Ian his due, being a pain in the ass is not illegal even though it should be. He’s fought it all the way for years, any murderer that knows his onions would have simply kept quiet once the charges were dropped or got the hell out and started over somewhere else. On the flip side that’s exactly what a good few of the blow ins in that area were probably doing anyway. Marie Farrell ( blow in) saw a strange person on the street who nobody else saw during a busy shopping time, managed to see him a second time, and then scored the hat trick by managing to see him again in the early hours of the following morning in an isolated area. Small town people are extremely observant yet nobody else noticed this? Now MF wasn’t from there, hadn’t even been there that long, but still could tell a stranger from the locals. The fact that AGS even acknowledged all this is enough to raise eyebrows.
I wasn't there so how should I know with certainty, and most likely neither were you.
However if he was abusing drugs ( I believe he smoked something on occasions...) he must have gotten it from somewhere. And news sure travels fast in rural Ireland where neighbours seem to know each other, even the name of their dogs.....
I am pretty sure he knew Leo Bolger and a few things about his life.
Considering Alfie and Shirley's lifestyle I don't think that they were at a higher level in the trade, or they were good at hiding it.
It is not inconceivable that they both knew something more than they ever told the police.
Leo Bolger was dealing and got a suspiciously suspended sentence for such an operation... a garda described his cannabis operation as the “most sophisticated” ever witnessed in West Cork.
Nothing like that on Alfie, so if involved seems to be just to mates.
If there is a drugs angle to the murder, wouldnt have to mean Alfie was the killer. But maybe he was given a reason to turn a blind eye and deaf ear / accessory after the fact.
I think it is possible person or persons unknown went to threaten Sophie over some dispute. And things escalated into murder.
What level of drug dealing, or production, was Alfie at? Was he some kingpin in the area or just dealing to mates?
If it’s the latter I doubt he’d be too bothered with any retaliation, or provocation, regarding complaints but if it’s the former then that would be something he wouldn’t want coming up.
You're right the diaries were never missing, however the journals were reported missing by the French as they were not part of the files given over by the Gardaí. Some referred to these as 'missing diaries ' but they turned up eventually . I've seen a quote from this book; "L'Affaire Sophie Toscan Du Plantier: Un déni de justice". that mentions them, that appears to be genuine. I don't know the contents except that they were appointments and contacts etc.
I don't know about Alfie. However if he did it, Shirley was in it as well and Alfie's motive was most likely drug related.
Sophie seen something she shouldn't and she was going to do something and had to be stopped.
After all, Alfie and Shirley were the only ones alone with Sophie on that particular night. There was with utter certainty nobody else for the duration of the night, plus both could have operated in secrecy under cover of darkness the whole night with a certain level of security of not getting discovered.
No it did not.
The circumstantial evidence against Alfie is far more convincing than that against Bailey.
There is, of course, clear evidence of presence at the murder scene...both Alfie and Shirley were, undeniably, there.
Bailey isn't ruled out. But the evidence against him is, as the DPP very clearly illustrated, flimsy at best. At worst, totally contrived.
I don't think Alfie had any issues lifting a stone and hitting Sophie. This could have been done rather easily, regardless of his physical situation back then.
There are just too many behavioral issues pointing towards AGS collusion and cover ups. That's simply the problem. The AGS certainly doesn't seem to be in a positive light. It is entirely possibly, just by their behavior that it was one of their own and they covered it up.
Why do they have to be lying? Are they medical experts who have examined him? Well?
They could have fallen for a false impression created by him, created for all sorts of reasons, such as claiming disability or a settlement.
Mad conspiracy theory stuff? That's an absolute blatant deflection.
Such as AGS bribing a witness with drugs?
Such as the shenanigans with Marie Farrell?
Such as the Garda Jobs Book being tampered with and pages destroyed?
Members of AGS on the Bandon tapes discussing malpractice?
But no, according to you whatever AGS said or documented must be true and if you disagree you're a conspiracy theorist.
Witnesses lie in trials, or misremember.
Some witnesses in this trial must be lying or misremembering because there are conflicts about basic facts. I don't throw out nonsense like 'mad conspiracy theories' though.
There's lot of cases of police forces fixating in someone who turns out to be innocent. Innocent people are accused of murder. Police forces are out to get 'a result'. Innocent people end up in jail.
Only a fool could think just because someone is accused of murder by the police, all the witnesses in their pocket are telling the truth and the accused is guilty.
Apparently it's a conspiracy theory now to point out that miscarriages of justice happen!
People say a lot of things. Doesn't mean they're right. And we certainly don't "only" go on "what people say" People said the earth was flat for many years. That type of approach went out with burning witches etc.
Please explain Bailey's "stated" motive.
Maybe he was and was ruled out? We don't know his health situation, we can only go on what people say. And Bailey explained his motive.
I'm going on what locals have said. I didn't know the man. Are we going to assume they are lying too?
Well in the broadcast I seen of Alfie he didn't appear frail and incapable at all. Alfie was only in his early 60s when the murder happened.
Alfie actually had motive, had an injury, was near the scene and acted strangely afterwards yet he wasn't treated as a suspect
Bill Fuller was lying. The Gardaí were corrupt. Other witnesses were lying or misinterpreting. Bailey's statements were just jokes. The scratches were from turkeys. The fire was a figment of people's imaginations. Bailey definitely didn't know Sophie despite being in a neighbours house regularly. His history of violence doesn't count because he was never caught before that.
This is all mad conspiracy theory stuff. He mightn't have done it but that doesn't mean that everyone else is out to get him.
He was frail, he had health issues and people in the area state he wouldn't be capable of running, attacking, lifting a heavy block etc to kill Sophie. They could be lying of course, as could Bill Fuller, as could the numerous other witnesses who made statements against Bailey. They all could be really dodgy as well as AGS being corrupt. It could all be some major conspiracy to pin it on him.
Or maybe the more likely thing is that none of them were lying and it was actually Bailey! I'm not sure why you believe him above everyone else.
Please tell us what health issues Alfie had that ruled him out? He only died about 3 years ago - lived another 20+ years after the murder
He's not making stuff up?
For starters you dont know that.
Secondly his conduct is dubious such as timing of when he disclosed this info. And the bizarre behaviour at the bridge.
And thats a total misrepresentation of what Bailey is even alleged to have said.
Alfie's health did rule him out. While there is nothing to rule Bailey out. The circumstantial evidence against him is far deeper. Bailey stated a motive. I've copied it on a previous post. There's no evidence of anyone at the murder scene. That doesn't rule Bailey out.
I'm not sure what you've got against Bill Fuller? He's not making stuff up, what reason do you have to think that he is? He believes Bailey admitted the circumstances of Sophie's death to him and it's a plausible explanation.
I agree . Many suspects were ruled out before the Gardai started concentrating on Bailey.
Alfie was only in his 60s when this murder happened. He wasn't a frail old man at all. As I understand it he had breathing issues but that doesn't rule him out as incapable. When people are in a rage it is very surprising what they could be capable of.
I'm not saying Alfie was responsible but ruling him out on health grounds is ridiculous.
As regards Bill Fuller - Fuller and Bailey were good friends who then fell out. Fuller went to the Gardai with his piece after he fell out with Bailey. How credible is he? Bill Fuller is another of the many dodgy witness's and characters involved in this case.
Several say he did meet her.
No Alfies health did not "rule him out".
That is just a lazy assertion on your part. He may have been capable-he may not.
And I'm not saying Bailey is ruled out. I'm saying the circumstantial evidence against him is weak. And compared to that against Alfie, very weak.
Your suggesting that Sophie was murdered by someone who had no association with her, had no motive, was not ( as far as evidence is concerned) at the scene and trekked several miles, in the middle of the night to murder her without reason.
Whilst "ruling out" someone who knew her well, was in a fractious and ongoing dispute with her, was definitely at the scene when the crime was actually committed, had a hand injury consistent with the circumstances of the attack, claimed to have seen and heard nothing, and sent his wife to the dump with a car load on the morning after.
Nonsense.
Then why wasn't all these other people running away from the mere sight of Bailey?
How long has Fuller had this supposed, barely incriminating piece of knowledge on Bailey, and only decided to freak out about it now.
Carrying out your own murder investigations, with a small child present?
And he thought what he had was worth Bailey attacking or killing him for in broad daylight with other witnesses about???
Pull the other one.
His antics were absolute nonsense.
I don't know who did it but the whole scene may have been staged or interfered with.
Everything is unlikely when you think about it. How many murders are there in Ireland? This was a very strange occurrence so saying something is unlikely is just stating the obvious. We have no evidence, all we can do is guess what happened based on what we've read. Alfie's health was bad based on that. Lifting a block wasn't something he was capable of.
If Bailey's statement that he saw her in Spar is true, then he knew she was there and the rest of his statement explains what happened then. The Gardaí 100% mismanaged this case but that might be how Bailey got away with it.
You're missing the point. Alfie's health ruled him out. Nothing ruled Bailey out and the circumstantial evidence against him was far more than that against Alfie. Bailey stated his own motive, he said it to Bill Fuller!
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